Test drove today.. Questions for people who know.

[David Towle]

To answer the other questions - Sport Mode does not engage the gas engine "by default" but it does lower the point at which it will come on. You absolutely can drive in Sport Mode using electric, but it's pretty easy to trigger the engine when accelerating - much easier than in ECO mode. Personally, I am usually in ECO or, occasionally, Sport - "normal" offers neither the efficiency advantage of ECO nor the (significant) fun factor of Sport. Sport's acceleration curve is significantly more aggressive. If I'm in HV anyway then I'll often use Sport, because why not...

The car definitely does auto-unlock/auto-lock. I love that feature (though I have to remind myself to push the fob button when exiting my other cars now). If you don't move away rapidly enough after closing the door it will issue a series of beeps to warn you that it didn't auto-lock - this is a safety feature where if it senses the fob still in proximity, it avoids locking to prevent you from locking the key in the car. You can set auto-unlock to unlock just the front or all doors; I quickly switched it after the first time it wouldn't let my family in.

Like many others I'd love the regen settings to both go a bit stronger and to be persistent in all modes (or at least have the option to do so) but all in all that's a minor complaint about an otherwise very, very nice car.

Unless I've missed something, the auto unlock is poorly designed for people like us with young children. We always want to unlock the rear doors first to put the child in. You can't just tug on a rear door handle to do this (even though out of habit I still try to do this after 2 months with the car), you have to open a front door first then the rears unlock and you can open them. On our Lexus NX you can pull on any door to unlock.

 

[ab13]

I wish the Clarity PHEV had a paddle-method to eliminate the default regen and achieve genuine coasting without having to feather the accelerator while watching the Power/Charge Gauge instead of the road.

I doubt it's possible with a permanent magnet motor, not without adding some kind of clutch to that motor. That would be more complex and add cost, etc.., which is what this design is not supposed to be.

 

[LAF]

It's funny, I think I'm fairly geeky about my electric cars (I also have a Leaf), but it always shocks me how much thought and effort people want to put into their driving. All this talk about pressing the paddles a certain number of times when the traffic is a certain way, etc. It seems exhausting to me! On the Leaf, you have two choices for the amount of Regen, normal, which is not very much, and B mode, which has a moderate amount of regen. That's a reasonable choice. Set it when you start to drive, and don't think about it.

I find the way the paddles work on the Clarity baffling. Makes no sense to me that you would use the paddles to set a regen level but then it changes? I've tried it, I don't understand it. I find myself constantly looking for those small arrows. Why would I want it constantly changing? Too much looking and thinking, and pressing of buttons. The idea is that when you take your foot off the accelerator, the car should "brake" for you at your desired level. It's supposed to be simpler one pedal driving with less moving of your foot from the accelerator to the brake. The selected level should stay until you change it.

It seems that a few people in this thread seem to think that using the paddles uses more regen than pressing the brake pedal. It does not. Pressing the brake pedal will do the same thing, as long as you are not braking hard and using the disc brakes.

Anyway, different strokes for different folks I guess!

"I find the way the paddles work on the Clarity baffling. Makes no sense to me that you would use the paddles to set a regen level but then it changes? I've tried it, I don't understand it"

I think the regen was designed to be used when you need to slow down but not stop the car, such as going around a curve or going downhill. Its not really made for coming to a complete stop such as at a light because you eventually need the break and the regen from breaking is just as efficient as the paddle. That may be the reason regen goes away each time you apply it.

 

[Waven]

For me the regen arrows might disappear when hitting the brake but the regen level stays the same unless I change it with the paddles. Never had truly clear on me in any mode.

 

[dnb]

Unless I've missed something, the auto unlock is poorly designed for people like us with young children. We always want to unlock the rear doors first to put the child in. You can't just tug on a rear door handle to do this (even though out of habit I still try to do this after 2 months with the car), you have to open a front door first then the rears unlock and you can open them. On our Lexus NX you can pull on any door to unlock.

There is a sensor inside the door handle, you can just hover your hand in there and not touch it / pull on it and it will unlock all doors. You don't have to open the front doors at all, just hover your hand in there for half a sec.

 

[dnb]

I think the regen was designed to be used when you need to slow down but not stop the car, such as going around a curve or going downhill. Its not really made for coming to a complete stop such as at a light because you eventually need the break and the regen from breaking is just as efficient as the paddle. That may be the reason regen goes away each time you apply it.

Yep which is why it works great for me and I'm glad that it "resets" back to stage 1.

I use it all the time on roundabouts and yield signs. I only have 2 actual stop signs (and a few stop lights) in my daily commute.

Also use ACC, it will slow for you and even completely stop the car (and sometimes will go too, think its like 3-5 seconds before it stays stopped).

 

[insightman]

I doubt it's possible with a permanent magnet motor, not without adding some kind of clutch to that motor. That would be more complex and add cost, etc.., which is what this design is not supposed to be.

Is the traction motor always resisting the Clarity's forward motion unless power is applied? I believe that if you disconnect the wire to the traction motor, it won't resist the turning of the wheels to which it is connected.

 

[bpratt]

Is the traction motor always resisting the Clarity's forward motion unless power is applied? I believe that if you disconnect the wire to the traction motor, it won't resist the turning of the wheels to which it is connected.

The traction motor (actually both motors) are brushless DC motors. A DC motor requires a controller which sequentially pulses the electro magnets around the motor to produce power. The controller can also provide a configuration that turns the traction motor into a generator. If the controller is not providing power to the electro magnets surrounding the motor, the motor is turning free and presents almost no resistance.

 

[David Towle]

The traction motor (actually both motors) are brushless DC motors. A DC motor requires a controller which sequentially pulses the electro magnets around the motor to produce power. The controller can also provide a configuration that turns the traction motor into a generator. If the controller is not providing power to the electro magnets surrounding the motor, the motor is turning free and presents almost no resistance.

thanks. Very nice to have someone who knows electronics and motors!

 

[su_A_ve]

There is a sensor inside the door handle, you can just hover your hand in there and not touch it / pull on it and it will unlock all doors. You don't have to open the front doors at all, just hover your hand in there for half a sec.

Yes, and if you are using remote climate, it will still stay on until you actually open the driver's door. So you can load up the car or trunk and hot/cold air continue until you enter the car.

Then you have to wait the 3-5 seconds until the screen goes completely black before starting the car, if you want to listen to XM radio. Or until they fix the bug..

 

[KentuckyKen]

@insightman, I think they will eventually have to bury you in that old Insight. But hopefully you will both last for many more economical and productive years!

Here’s my oddball reason for using the paddles. Laziness. I slow down by using the paddles so I don’t have to move my foot to the brake pedal as much. Looking ahead and “coasting” (actually lowest regen) up to traffic lights and stop signs, most of the time I don’t even have to foot brake. And if traffic stops for extended periods I just brake for the last 5 mph and then Brake Hold lets me be lazy again.

With my lazy and economy oriented strategy, I actually like the fact that in Econ the regen resets to lowest level.
My right leg is not getting much exercise these days. But my right knee may be wearing the finish off the poorly designed console wing. And I’m probably setting the record for paddle pushes.

 

[Richard_arch74]

@insightman, I think they will eventually have to bury you in that old Insight. But hopefully you will both last for many more economical and productive years!

Here’s my oddball reason for using the paddles. Laziness. I slow down by using the paddles so I don’t have to move my foot to the brake pedal as much. Looking ahead and “coasting” (actually lowest regen) up to traffic lights and stop signs, most of the time I don’t even have to foot brake. And if traffic stops for extended periods I just brake for the last 5 mph and then Beake Hold lets me be lazy again.

With my lazy and economy oriented strategy, I actually like the fact that in Econ the regen resets to lowest level.
My right leg is not getting much exercise these days. But my right knee may be wearing the finish off the poorly designed console wing. And I’m probably setting the record for paddle pushes.

@KentuckyKen, you and I are on the same wavelength on the regen paddle thing. I challenge myself to put regen, and amount of regen, on at the exact right time so I don't have to use the breaks. Who knows, maybe we'll have one less break job over the life of our cars. BTW, sorry to rain on your parade on the other thread. You won't be sorry as I believe you will get more sunshine in KY.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[ab13]

Is the traction motor always resisting the Clarity's forward motion unless power is applied? I believe that if you disconnect the wire to the traction motor, it won't resist the turning of the wheels to which it is connected.

I made an incorrect statement here, and I had actually considered the AC drive motor to be the "2nd clutch" is this system, since it can disconnect from driving the system to freewheeling. However, I think Toyota and most other systems always regenerate when the accelerator is released.

 

[jdonalds]

I was curious about this and tested it. Its just the chevon display timing out. There is the same amount of drag / regen when coasting and if you don't do anything the (don't hold anything) the chevron also disappears after a few seconds of not using the paddles.

Ahh another Clarity feature with subtle variations. Thanks dnb for posting your comment. After you posted this I was also curious. So I tested it a little while ago when going to pick my son up at school.

What I learned, as an example, is if there is one chevron and I am increasing the speed of the car the chevron will soon disappear. If I have a single chevron and I'm allowing the car to slow the chevron will remain on. I counted at least 15 seconds with the single chevron until I accelerated after which it went away. In the second case I can hold the right paddle and force the chevron to go away. By the way with a single chevron I'm convinced it is causing regen above zero chevron level because I feel the car release and glide just a bit more.

This behavior reminds me of the question whether the brake lights are on when using regen. Some, who've had someone observe their brake lights, have said that 4 chevrons does light up the tail lights, others have said not. I suspect there is another subtle difference and both are correct. It seems that is still an open question.

It's an interesting car. What we seem to be doing is reverse engineering the software programmers code one bit at a time.

 

[David Towle]

@KentuckyKen, you and I are on the same wavelength on the regen paddle thing. I challenge myself to put regen, and amount of regen, on at the exact right time so I don't have to use the breaks. Who knows, maybe we'll have one less break job over the life of our cars. BTW, sorry to rain on your parade on the other thread. You won't be sorry as I believe you will get more sunshine in KY.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app

Me too its like a game to time it out right. But one less brake job? It should be easy to never have a break job. With regular cars I usually get over 100,000 miles between brakes, with this one should be half a million miles with how little they are used. My record is 220,000 on the rear brakes of my 1987 Peugeot 505.

 

[Richard_arch74]

Me too its like a game to time it out right. But one less brake job? It should be easy to never have a break job. With regular cars I usually get over 100,000 miles between brakes, with this one should be half a million miles with how little they are used. My record is 220,000 on the rear brakes of my 1987 Peugeot 505.

Yikes, I bet I need a break job every 70- 75,000 miles. My last car, 2001 Camry with 160,000 miles, had at least 3 break jobs.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[jdonalds]

Me too its like a game to time it out right. But one less brake job? It should be easy to never have a break job. With regular cars I usually get over 100,000 miles between brakes, with this one should be half a million miles with how little they are used. My record is 220,000 on the rear brakes of my 1987 Peugeot 505.

Me too. The car has a lot of toys that can be ignored or played with. I use the paddles most drives. My son now drives our 2008 Prius which is pushing 200,000 miles and still has the original brakes. Using the paddles instead of the brake pedal is my attempt to make the brakes last longer too

 

[dnb]

Me too. The car has a lot of toys that can be ignored or played with. I use the paddles most drives. My son now drives our 2008 Prius which is pushing 200,000 miles and still has the original brakes. Using the paddles instead of the brake pedal is my attempt to make the brakes last longer too

Has anyone determined that the breaking system always uses the break pads and doesn't use regen first? I figured it would be more like gas where lighter touch == regen breaking and harder = actual break pads similar to hard pressing can trigger gas. It seems to work that way since the regen goes up (well down) so much when using the break pedal.

Honestly though just being able to hold the left regen wheel pad thing would be so much nicer than having to click it a few times

 

[insightman]

I made an incorrect statement here, and I had actually considered the AC drive motor to be the "2nd clutch" is this system, since it can disconnect from driving the system to freewheeling. However, I think Toyota and most other systems always regenerate when the accelerator is released.

The traction motor is permanently geared to the front wheels. The Engine Drive clutch determines whether the ICE is also connected to gears driving the front wheels.

It makes sense to always have a low level of regen slowing the car when the driver lifts off the accelerator because that gives the Clarity the same feel as a "regular" car. I wish for some way to disable the default regen, such as three long pulls of the right paddle or some other method that wouldn't happen by accident. Going back and forth between Drive and Neutral isn't something I'd be comfortable doing.

 

[insightman]

Has anyone determined that the breaking system always uses the break pads and doesn't use regen first? I figured it would be more like gas where lighter touch == regen breaking and harder = actual break pads similar to hard pressing can trigger gas. It seems to work that way since the regen goes up (well down) so much when using the break pedal.

You are correct, but because the Clarity's braking system is so sophisticated, it's too smooth to signal when it engages the brake calipers.

In my dreamed-for all-information display (for which I'd pay hundreds of dollars and could be just a software update), there would be an indicator signaling max regen from the brake pedal, just before the calipers engage.