R P
Well-Known Member
OK, that's a point. Bear in mind, too, that driving slower saves a lot, if you are cutting it really close, probably more than having Climate off.
Summer vs Winter KWh use
- Thread starter Hofty
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R P
Well-Known Member
Yup, we had a neighbour with a Pony, super cheap. As for those plastic shields, I remember they worked great. Peel them off for the summer, and stick them back on in winter. Not sure why they don't sell them now anymore. Thought they would still be useful in places like Manitoba and anywhere it is cold enough to get frost on the inside of your windows. My Kona likes to get condensation on the inside windows after sitting outside in the winter for a couple hours (esp if it has been raining). But it does clear quickly when I push the defrost, much faster than the old ICE cars.
But google did find some, and real vintage, too,... haha.
https://www.vintageplanet.ca/FrostShield-2-rounded-Rectangle-Vintage-Frost-Shields_p_750.html
But google did find some, and real vintage, too,... haha.
https://www.vintageplanet.ca/FrostShield-2-rounded-Rectangle-Vintage-Frost-Shields_p_750.html
Lars
Well-Known Member
For those who have heat pumps - all but the basic model I guess. I just run into something interesting about winter driving.
Quote: "A study by the Korean Ministry of Environment on the Hyundai Kona Electric and Kia Niro found that with the HVAC activated, they kept 90% of their driving range in conditions of temperatures below -7°C. When other electric vehicles that did not have a heat pump went through the same test, they had a drop in their driving range from 18% and up to 43%."
Not quite Manitoba winter, however, I found it interesting to keep the A/C on in cold weather. Not at all intuitive. My wife always makes sure it is OFF in the winter. I tend not to worry about it too much, thinking this car has so much smarts it should know what to do. I think for lot's of us A/C = cooling. To have to turn it on in cold weather to take advantage of the heat pump seems silly. (As a side note one could define "air conditioning" (A/C) as heating AND cooling.)
Full article here: (roll down to the Kona Electric Kia Niro.)
https://enrg.io/electric-cars-heat-pumps/
Here is another link comparing 2020 EVs. Deals with various battery chemistries, pros and cons. types.
https://pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/
Quote: "A study by the Korean Ministry of Environment on the Hyundai Kona Electric and Kia Niro found that with the HVAC activated, they kept 90% of their driving range in conditions of temperatures below -7°C. When other electric vehicles that did not have a heat pump went through the same test, they had a drop in their driving range from 18% and up to 43%."
Not quite Manitoba winter, however, I found it interesting to keep the A/C on in cold weather. Not at all intuitive. My wife always makes sure it is OFF in the winter. I tend not to worry about it too much, thinking this car has so much smarts it should know what to do. I think for lot's of us A/C = cooling. To have to turn it on in cold weather to take advantage of the heat pump seems silly. (As a side note one could define "air conditioning" (A/C) as heating AND cooling.)
Full article here: (roll down to the Kona Electric Kia Niro.)
https://enrg.io/electric-cars-heat-pumps/
Here is another link comparing 2020 EVs. Deals with various battery chemistries, pros and cons. types.
https://pushevs.com/2020/04/04/comparison-of-different-ev-batteries-in-2020/
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ericy
Well-Known Member
U.S. models don't have them at any trim level. Not an option, no upgrade path without spending an insane amount of money. They apparently do this to keep the MSRP down, but that leads to stories of people driving around with the heat off and a blanket in their lap. Where I am, the temperature is rarely below freezing, but nonetheless it is uncomfortable driving around with the heat off.
Lars
Well-Known Member
Well, in Ontario I paid $46,149 Canadian for mid-package 2021 "Preferred". Before add-ons and a $5k federal rebate, which is taken off the grand total after taxes! But it came with heat pump and battery heater. Neither of those are listed on the std. model, MSRP C$44,999. So the difference is a couple of thousand Canadian. (They really get you for the Ultimate package at C$53,149.)
Importunately my car in sitting at the dealers lot since October 26, waiting for a new drive battery. So my cold weather driving experience at this point is none. I wish someone would figure out the difference of using seat heater vs. (say driver side) cabin heat on the HV battery.
While I was researching this I noticed that the 2021 models are listed with a 100kWh battery charger!
Before my car gave up charging (@L2) I had the opportunity to fast charge it three times at the same 300kWh charger. I am sure it topped out at 75kWh. I have to look into this.https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/showroom/2021/kona-electric
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Don't get your hopes up on the charging curve as it has not changed (increased). Kona still limits out at 77 kW max as usual (under ideal conditions) and will remain that way until the new E-GMP platform has been produced.Well, in Ontario I paid $46,149 Canadian for mid-package 2021 "Preferred". Before add-ons and a $5k federal rebate, which is taken off the grand total after taxes! But it came with heat pump and battery heater. Neither of those are listed on the std. model, MSRP C$44,999. So the difference is a couple of thousand Canadian. (They really get you for the Ultimate package at C$53,149.)
Importunately my car in sitting at the dealers lot since October 26, waiting for a new drive battery. So my cold weather driving experience at this point is none. I wish someone would figure out the difference of using seat heater vs. (say driver side) cabin heat on the HV battery.
While I was researching this I noticed that the 2021 models are listed with a 100kWh battery charger!
https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/showroom/2021/kona-electric
The add just indicates it is capable of 80% of it's capacity charging utilizing a 100 kW charger.
Hopefully your new pack arrives before too long
KiwiME
Well-Known Member
Well, the heat pump might use around 600 W based on my observations while the seat heaters (which I don't have) could use perhaps 200 (for both) based of that being 3/4 of the 20A fuse capacity.
So, just FYI it's kW for power, kWh for energy.
Lars
Well-Known Member
Don't get your hopes up on the charging curve as it has not changed (increased). Kona still limits out at 77 kW max as usual (under ideal conditions) and will remain that way until the new E-GMP platform has been produced.
The add just indicates it is capable of 80% of it's capacity charging utilizing a 100 kW charger.
Hopefully your new pack arrives before too long
I would call that "false advertising" - isn't that against the law? Or only in Europe?
Apparently there is a raging 4th wave of Covid-19 in South Korea. That will not help the arrival of my battery pack.
Lars
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that. This is good. Now the only missing piece is how much power the resistance based heater use? Anyone?
Don't get your hopes up on the charging curve as it has not changed (increased). Kona still limits out at 77 kW max as usual (under ideal conditions) and will remain that way until the new E-GMP platform has been produced.
The add just indicates it is capable of 80% of it's capacity charging utilizing a 100 kW charger.
Hopefully your new pack arrives before too long
I double checked and the 54 minutes for 0-80% on a 100 kW charger that Hyundai is quoting for 2021 models is the same speed as 2020 (at least for the US). I'm not sure I remember Hyundai presenting it as 100 kW though; I could swear that it just said a 54-minute 0-80% charge was possible on DCFC (or Level III as they call it).
IMO it's confusing to mention 100 kW. It does make it seem like the vehicle is capable of charging at 100 kW. Then again, for the non-expert, it might be useful to round up and simply say "this is the kind of charger you'd need to take advantage of the vehicle's full DCFC capability."
Esprit1st
Well-Known Member
I am not 100% sure. But I believe I've never seen a DC charger that has 75kW power. I've seen 24, 50, 100, 150, 175, 350. I'm sure there is more, though.
That's the reason they say on a 100 kW charger it takes that long, since the next step down seems to be a 50 kW charger.
So no, it's not false advertising.
That's the reason they say on a 100 kW charger it takes that long, since the next step down seems to be a 50 kW charger.
So no, it's not false advertising.
Misleading but not "false"
apu
Well-Known Member
That really depends on the difference between external ambient and internal cabin temperature. When my car was working(sigh) and driving home from work last night external ambient was -15C and cabin heat was at at 22C. I was saw peaks of 5kw drawn by the resistance heater for several minutes and this eventual plateaued at around 2.5kw/hr when the cabin heat reached set point. When ambient is closer to 0C the car will run mixed heat pump and resistance at around 1200 watts.
apu
Well-Known Member
I believe the heat pump cuts out completely somewhere between -5 to -7C, that is likely where its coefficient of performance (COP) exceeds 1:1 and its just more efficient to use resistance heating after that point. Somewhere between -5 and +5C you may get heat pump only or a mixture of resistance and heat pump depending how much heat you call for, i.e. if you ask for max heat at + 5C its possible resistance heater may come on briefly to assist while the heat pump spools up.
Lars
Well-Known Member
I think we are talking about two things here and possibly mix them up? The advertised charger rating of 100kWh of the 2021 Kona is the ability of the car's charge controller to absorb and pass to the battery up to 100kWh energy. This should be available under certain (OK ideal) conditions and it is not connected to the charge stations ability to pump out power over the car's ability to absorb it. In my case, I mentioned earlier, the charge station's output was rated at 300kWh, it was not shared and the outside ambient temp was around 18C - almost ideal? The car's SOC was around 40%, it was definitely not a hot day. Charging started at 70kWh - not at 100kWh as advertised - and dropped fast. To be honest fast is relative here. I can't recall the exact details, time and SOC when it dropped but it was 'fast'. I need to take more/better notes!
Esprit1st
Well-Known Member
This comes up regularly. I believe (I might be wrong but don't think so) Hyundai never said that the car can charge at 100 kW. They only say that using a 100 kW charger you can charge from 10-80% in 40 minutes. That is a small but significant difference.
The car accepts a maximum of 75 kW which happens to be in-between 50 and 100 kW chargers, which is unfortunate but you require a 100 kW charger in order to get the fastest charge rate.
It's the same as if you had only a 10 and a 20 dollar bill but buying something worth $15. You're not gonna get it using the $10 bill. The $20 bill is overkill but at least it gets you what you want. Luckily for us we have coins, imagine we wouldn't. But then, that's exactly what happens at the gas station ... $2.999 is usually the advertised price.
The car accepts a maximum of 75 kW which happens to be in-between 50 and 100 kW chargers, which is unfortunate but you require a 100 kW charger in order to get the fastest charge rate.
It's the same as if you had only a 10 and a 20 dollar bill but buying something worth $15. You're not gonna get it using the $10 bill. The $20 bill is overkill but at least it gets you what you want. Luckily for us we have coins, imagine we wouldn't. But then, that's exactly what happens at the gas station ... $2.999 is usually the advertised price.
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KiwiME
Well-Known Member
To be pedantic again, these are power numbers in kW, not kWh.
I'll agree however that I thought the 100kW sales specification was a bit misleading.
Lars
Well-Known Member
You are correct. My mistake. I re-read the brochure and they are playing with 'clever 'wording. They must have some California ad company.