Thanks for the info. I’d attribute ~6.5 miles of your lost range to the battery degradation from 54.6 to ~47, roughly 15%, and maybe a 2 miles to the new tires.
Something I wish I had known before I purchased the vehicle
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Thanks for the info. I’d attribute ~6.5 miles of your lost range to the battery degradation from 54.6 to ~47, roughly 15%, and maybe a 2 miles to the new tires.
I’m not 100% clear on what you mean by “MPG saver”. They certainty reduce gasoline consumption. I’ve averaged just a few gallons a month, compared to 30 gallons, or more, per month with the previous ICE, and that car got 38mpg.
I agree that the average human is often clueless when it comes to big ticket purchases, or life in general. There’s just too much freaking information available to use ignorance as an excuse for not understanding a vehicle or its idiosyncrasies.
In HV mode or all EV? How far did you drive at those speeds?
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
In defense of the old VW's everywhere, the add above only claimed 25mpg. I just drove my '72 300 miles and averaged 27mpg, but it was flat I-5/hwy 101 going 60-65mph which is probably 110% the typical top speed.
I recall a possibly made up story from the 1960’s...
A fellow with a VW would go on and on to his neighbors about his gas mileage. They got so sick of it they decided to play a trick on him. Every night they would sneak out and put a gallon or so of gas in his car. Then listen to him astonished at the incredible miles he was getting on just one tank! Of course, it helped that VW’s of that era didn’t have fuel gauges.
The apocryphal story I heard was that after a period of adding gasoline, the pranksters started removing gasoline nightly and then waited in vain for the VW owner to complain about his decreasing gas mileage. He stopped his gas-mileage boasting, but he didn't complain.
Poorly worded on my part. I did a lot of research. It just never really occurred to me to ask "How many EV miles will I be averaging after two years?" If it had occurred to me then I would have researched it. Which was the original point of the original post. I wish I had known which also includes I wish I had known to ask. I am going to go out on a limb and guess I'm not the only one?
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
Not all Clarities are made equal--
I know of 2 (my own and a good friend nearby) with new Clarities purchased at the same time from the same dealer that never see the high range of EV miles (estimated, or actual). I spent a huge amount of effort my first year to modify my driving per tips in these forums. My car never gets high EV range and never will. It doesn't matter whom is driving it.
My EV range is often 28 miles total and that's just what I get. Under perfect conditions in the summer, I sometimes see 40 EV miles tops if I'm lucky. The battery measured 53.2 when I bought it. Still waiting for the Autel software to measure again. But I don't even think it's the battery. I do think terrain matters (living on a steep hill definitely hits range). I've also been places for a week at a time, all flat. The range doesn't improve that much.
Anyway, I really believe there is significant differences in the specific cars themselves. They are not all the same. If you account for weather conditions and terrain, I do think those are substantial, and the other stuff is small.
For my part I think Honda could of advertised 37 miles EV and done just fine. It would better match reality for those of us that never see high EV range, and just allow better bragging for those who do.
Not sad I bought Clarity. Love the car. I do burn gas, but a lot less than I used to.
-Dan
I know of 2 (my own and a good friend nearby) with new Clarities purchased at the same time from the same dealer that never see the high range of EV miles (estimated, or actual). I spent a huge amount of effort my first year to modify my driving per tips in these forums. My car never gets high EV range and never will. It doesn't matter whom is driving it.
My EV range is often 28 miles total and that's just what I get. Under perfect conditions in the summer, I sometimes see 40 EV miles tops if I'm lucky. The battery measured 53.2 when I bought it. Still waiting for the Autel software to measure again. But I don't even think it's the battery. I do think terrain matters (living on a steep hill definitely hits range). I've also been places for a week at a time, all flat. The range doesn't improve that much.
Anyway, I really believe there is significant differences in the specific cars themselves. They are not all the same. If you account for weather conditions and terrain, I do think those are substantial, and the other stuff is small.
For my part I think Honda could of advertised 37 miles EV and done just fine. It would better match reality for those of us that never see high EV range, and just allow better bragging for those who do.
Not sad I bought Clarity. Love the car. I do burn gas, but a lot less than I used to.
-Dan
All - just to add to this discussion, my Clarity was manufactured in March 2018 and leased in June 2018 and now has just under 38,000 miles. My last fuel fill-up was January 21st and since that time I have travelled approx 1,800 miles (approx 100 HV miles remaining). My Battery capacity per the Car Scanner Pro app now measures at 47.98 (it was 48.22) when I started measuring it about a month ago thanks to this forum. Yesterday - with myself driving and two 10 year-olds in the back seat - my car achieved 55 EV miles before the gas engine kicked in driving with the Econ drive mode engaged. This was with 50% highway (60-65mph) and 50% local stoplight driving. It was 60-65 degrees so I was able to use the fan on low speed without A/C to provide ventilation. Overall very content that I am still able to get over 50 EV miles - and make me wonder if Honda somehow has engineered the hybrid battery to "release" more of it reserve capacity as the car ages to maintain EV mile efficiency....appreciate if one of the engineers on this forum can let us know your thoughts...thanks!
I doubt Honda or any other company would choose to advertise less EV (or gas) range than that indicated by the EPA test suite.
I really like our Clarity, yet even with its 47-mile advertised EV range, it didn't do just fine in the marketplace. Thanks, in part, to cheap gas and the resulting American lust for SUVs, the Clarity PHEV never sold in large numbers. Honda's optimistic plan to make it a mainstream 50-state (and Canada) car didn't work out and they pulled back so now the car is a special-order proposition east of California. Sadly, it appears the result of this lesson learned will be a GM EV crossover rebadged as a Honda (the "Boltonda", like the old Honduzu?).
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
I agree. I suspect many don't really look at what they actually need. i.e. Do I really need a huge truck if 90% of my travel is just me, and I'm not towing? But yes, I think we have some deeper problems to help hybrids / electric vehicles become more popular.
And sadly, don't wish high gas prices on poor folks, but it does seem that only when fuel gets expensive do people consider alternatives.
-Dan
I think the fact that the platform was designed for a fuel cell model compromised the car to some degree. If it was a hatchback or at least had a larger trunk pass through it would have done much better. Honda also have not done their normal refresh for 2021 model, another reason for the car going out of favor.
I’m not an engineer.
What could be done to utilize more of the energy stored in the battery or to increase the amount of energy stored in the battery, would be to modify the charging protocol. The cells in our battery are considered to be 100% charged at 4.2V. The target charging voltage is 4.092V. It could be increased to, say, 4.13V, and there would be more energy available to use. Likewise, the low voltage cutoff could be lowered to accomplish the same goal.
Some owners have concluded that we are able to use ~14kWh’s from the 17kWh battery, based on the amount of energy required to accomplish a full charge. This is a reasonable assumption and goes along with the idea that the battery is actually being charged to ~90% and discharged to ~10% of it’s true capacity. So if a slightly degraded battery were pushed from 95% to 5%, it could provide the same energy as a new battery that had charging parameters set at 90% and 10%.
I do not know if Hondalink is capable of such an upgrade or if it would require a visit to a dealer.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
With almost a total lack of marketing, that had to be expected. In fact, not only expected, but the desired outcome, IMHO.
David Towle
Well-Known Member
Yeah we've talked before about how these cars must cost more to produce than they charge for them.
High gas prices crush poor folks. See also.....people who can't afford EV's. It surprises me how often EV advocates forget this.
Depending on how we qualify “Poor”, poor folks buy used cars. 10, 12, 15 year old cars, for a couple thousand bucks. Until there’s a supply of $2000 EV’s on the market, they’ll be buying 15 year old Corollas and Civics. Or taking public transit. Or carpooling with a coworker, etc.
No too far away in Oregon.
You can pick up a used LEAF in the $2,000 to $2,500 range (net) if you qualify for the Charge Ahead Rebate (<120% of median income).
Greetings,
I am new here and this is my first post but can anyone tell me what is "Normal degradation" of these batteries.
Per Honda's warranty, it states "Gradual capacity loss of the high voltage battery is expected and not covered under warranty. Greater than normal degradation is covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles, and can be determined by an authorized Honda Clarity Electric dealer". I have asked about 7 dealerships and cannot get an answer to this question from the service technicians. The sales staff that I have spoken with have told me "Nothing in the first few years of ownership" but they are trying to sell me a car. In order to know what is greater than normal is, don't we need a benchmark of what to expect? Otherwise, this battery will never be covered under warranty
I've lost about 29% within the first 12-14 months of ownership in Southern California. A software patch gave me a few miles back but within 6 months, I am just about where I was a year ago.