Scale from 1 to 10?

[insightman]

It couldn’t have been that difficult to map the accelerator differently or add a switch that would “lock in” EV mode and prevent the ICE from coming on.

A driver's natural instinct is to floor the accelerator pedal when maximum horsepower is needed to avoid an accident, so the click-point solution is safer than forcing the driver to search for a hand-operated switch when more than the Clarity's 121 EV horsepower is needed instantaneously. It's too bad Honda didn't design a moving click point that retains its ECON Mode function with the accelerator-pedal mappings of NORMAL and SPORT Modes, too.

 

[Landshark]

A driver's natural instinct is to floor the accelerator pedal when maximum horsepower is needed to avoid an accident,

That’s a common rationale for avoiding an accident. I’m a firm believer that 99% of the time, a driver would be more likely to avoid an accident by applying the brakes, rather than the throttle. And, let’s face it, the Clarity isn’t going to get anyone out of a pickle with the accelerator.

 

[insightman]

That’s a common rationale for avoiding an accident. I’m a firm believer that 99% of the time, a driver would be more likely to avoid an accident by applying the brakes, rather than the throttle. And, let’s face it, the Clarity isn’t going to get anyone out of a pickle with the accelerator.

Different drivers, different pickles. Then there are the lawyers.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I’m a firm believer that 99% of the time, a driver would be more likely to avoid an accident by applying the brakes, rather than the throttle.

Hard to put a number on it, but yes, physics being what it is slower is almost always better in an accident.*

But even if 1% of accidents may have been avoided by accelerating, I’d think there might be legitimate liability concerns to a driver-selectable setting that limited power available. Imagine merging between two semi’s only to realize you horribly misjudged the speed of the second semi and his gap with you is closing fast! And then flooring it but getting an intentional tepid response.


* I was an accident response unit for a year. In many accidents, the skid marks stop well short of the point-of-impact, which is virtually never a good idea. There seems to be a reflex to let off the brakes when an impact is unavoidable. Which is too bad, since every mph shaved off the impact speed is significant. Bear in mind, this was in the 1980’s, so ABS was not universal - ABS may itself reduce skid marks even though maximum braking is occurring.

 

[Landshark]

Imagine merging between two semi’s only to realize you horribly misjudged the speed of the second semi and his gap with you is closing fast! And then flooring it but getting an intentional tepid response.

We could come up with any number of “what if” scenarios. Point is, the Clarity, with 121hp is not the slowest car to ever hit the road.

There wasn’t a legal disclaimer on the Fiat 128 I drove as a teenager. That thing was slow.

 

[hamr4267]

Isn't it ~$65k USD in Japan? (I think that includes an 8% tax though). Is the only difference the DC charge ability?

Edit:hmm in Japan also seems to have a 71mi range and an external power output connection, you can pull 3kw from it.

I read somewhere that it costs 50k in japan

 

[insightman]

We could come up with any number of “what if” scenarios.

I can't think of a scenario where a hand-operated, horsepower-limiting switch is safer.

 

[Bender]

I read somewhere that it costs 50k in japan

I only found 2018 prices, don't know if they're the same for 2020/2021.
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2018/4180719eng-clarity-phev.html

5,880,600 yen (with tax) 5,445,000 yen (before tax)
At the current conversion rates, that's $56795 and $52589 respectively.

It's unclear if that's the Touring equivalent or if they only had one trim level (just one set of prices listed on that page).

 

[Landshark]

I can't think of a scenario where a hand-operated, horsepower-limiting switch is safer.

Would you consider the Clarity unsafe if it were only capable of putting out 121hp? A driver would learn what the vehicle was capable of doing and operate it appropriately. What is the hp on an Insight? Less than the Clarity?

Many models are equipped with a variety of engines that have different hp ratings. Is the model with the most power the safest one?

More power doesn’t make a car safer.

I’d simply like the option of having the car stay in EV, and with my superior driving skills, I would be able to operate it in a safe manner with a measly 121hp.

 

[insightman]

Would you consider the Clarity unsafe if it were only capable of putting out 121hp?

The Clarity on EV is faster than every car I've owned before the Clarity so I wouldn't consider it unsafe if it had only 121 hp.

I still can't think of a scenario where a hand-operated, horsepower-limiting, EV-only switch would be safer than the foot-operated accelerator-pedal click-point switch that effectively allows the driver to keep the Clarity in EV if the driver can stand to drive in ECON Mode.

 

[aapitten]

That’s a common rationale for avoiding an accident. I’m a firm believer that 99% of the time, a driver would be more likely to avoid an accident by applying the brakes, rather than the throttle. And, let’s face it, the Clarity isn’t going to get anyone out of a pickle with the accelerator.

Perhaps I fall into the 1%, but about 10-15 years ago I had an accident on a very snowy/icy day where a new driver slid through a red light at about 50 mph and t-boned me. Thankfully they hit their horn a second before impact (which was inevitable as I was already in the middle of the intersection with a green light).

I floored it to try to get out of the way - and at least managed to have them nail me in my rear driver's door and destroy it rather than the drivers door where I was sitting.

Unrelated, but I think all the snow saved me on that one - I ended up sliding sideways 25ish feet across the intersection and another 25ish feet down a bank and across field (just missing a telephone pole). Had it been less slick on the road I definitely would not have been walking away and/or would have rolled down that bank. (Though that driver probably also wouldn't have slid through the red light....)

 

[jdonalds]

Its 8.5 to 9 for me ... i just rue at its potential to get 10
Love lot of things about the car. Actually for me heavier is better and noise is also less.

Nobody mentioned the excessive trips to dealer for maintenance. The oil change frequency is irritating when ICE is not even used.Overall maintenance trips are just too much.

I don't go to the dealer for any reason other than that which might be a warranty issue. The service monitor suggests changing the oil long before it's needed with our driving pattern. I take the car to Jiffy Lube once a year. If the service light comes on too soon I just clear it.

 

[jdonalds]

That’s a common rationale for avoiding an accident. I’m a firm believer that 99% of the time, a driver would be more likely to avoid an accident by applying the brakes, rather than the throttle. And, let’s face it, the Clarity isn’t going to get anyone out of a pickle with the accelerator.

I had that exact experience. I had pulled out of a parking space on a city street. I had checked to make sure the lane was clear. But there was a 90 degree turn in the road and a car came around that corner driving quickly. I couldn't stop in place nor back up. My only option was to floor the accelerator pedal which instantly kicked on the gas engine. The battery + extra juice from the motor-generator did the trick and very likely helped avoid an accident.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I couldn't stop in place nor back up. My only option was to floor the accelerator pedal which instantly kicked on the gas engine. The battery + extra juice from the motor-generator did the trick and very likely helped avoid an accident.

Now imagine getting an alert: “FULL ACCELERATION DISABLED IN ECON MODE! DISENGAGE IF NEEDED IN EMERGENCY!”

 

[Landshark]

I’d still prefer that the car remained in EV, regardless of how the driver applied the throttle. Realizing the enormous risk involved, I would live or die with the 121hp available.

The car would earn an addition .25 points with that feature. That .25 point would be deducted should the car be programmed to flash a warning upon full application of the throttle.

 

[Bender]

I don't go to the dealer for any reason other than that which might be a warranty issue. The service monitor suggests changing the oil long before it's needed with our driving pattern.

Are there any vehicles with more than the 12mo/10k intervals that the Clarity has for oil changes?
Tires vary (for recommended rotations), but 7500 mi doesn't seem that unreasonable. And if you put other ties on it, I think with some tires the tire manufacturer might "require" 5k rotations for tire warranties.

 

[craze1cars]

I didn’t know Clarity had a 10,000 mile interval? 12 months yes...but I hadn’t heard 10k was ever associated with it.

Anyway my 2019 Mazda is the same. They specify 12 months of 10,000 miles between oil changes for normal use. Halve it for severe use.

So for those who just blindly use the maintenance minder as the time to do maintenance on the Clarity? I feel kinda sorry for them...they're visiting dealers WAY to often. Because my ICE Mazda asks for considerably less maintenance, at far more predictable intervals, than my Clarity does...DESPITE having an engine running 100% of the time the car is occupied.

Mazda: Clockwork: 10K or 12 months. And you can go to the maintenance screen and see exactly where you are within this range at any time. When it hits, you're due for oil change and tire rotation. Every time. Easy peasy. Heck you don't even need the stupid maintenance minder! Just look at odometer and plan to do it at 10K, 20K, 30K, etc. Huge kudos to their common sense and customer-oriented, money saving approach.

Honda: Insane randomness. It seemingly ignores engine run time, then asks for A01, even if it only needs 1, or A, or 0. But it doesn't tell you WHICH of those it actually needs. Nor how soon it needs each of them. So the stupid thing goes off every 4 months showing all these codes, so the equally confused dealers just throw the book at ya and unnecessarily change oil/rotate tires EVERY single time and clear all the codes, despite some codes not being needed for another 7 months...and now you're stuck visiting the dealer 2 or 3 times a year even if you're a sub 10K mile driver.

1x per year for Mazda. Easy. And 2 to 3 times cheaper because 2 to 3 times less visits.

If you're proactive and figure out Honda's senseless use of the MM, and you carefully document what you do when, you can override their useless MM and do what you want instead to save some cash. But you gotta put a little effort and documentation into it...

Crap. After this post I just reduced my previous vote of 6 for this car, to a 4.5. I love my Mazda so much more than my Clarity...for so many reasons...Two things Clarity does better than my Mazda: It gets about 5 mpg better fuel mileage on road trips, and it's a bit quieter, but only in EV mode. Everything else? The Mazda is just better from top to bottom IMO.

 

[DucRider]

My guess would be that they did not want to limit a driver to having only 121hp available.

My theory on this is that it is a moderately aggressive charging rate and Honda opted to cut off charging at ~60% SOC. DCFC’s seem to cut off charging at 80%. Honda took a more conservative approach.

There could be other reasons. That’s my theory and I’m sticking to it.

Electric motor in the Clarity PHEV is 181 HP (135 kW).

DCFC do not "cut off" at 80%, but do taper from their peak rate as SOC increases (sometimes at a quite low SOC). The Chevy Bolt for example will not charge at its peak rate after ~50% SOC, The Model 3 starts to taper at a little over 20% SOC if you are connected to a V3 Supercharger.

The Audi e-tron actually increases charge rate as it nears 80%, then starts to taper rapidly (a nearly textbook constant current to constant voltage transition).

In the constant current stage, the amperage remains the same but the voltage increases with SOC (it stays slightly more than the pack voltage). Atfter the transition point, the voltage remains constant (at max pack voltage) and the amperage tapers off.

Who knows why Honda decided to cap the Charge mode SOC at 60%. They certainly could have tapered the amount going to the battery to bring it to near full without any issues.

 

[insightman]

Electric motor in the Clarity PHEV is 181 HP (135 kW)

When running on battery power only, the Clarity PHEV's motor puts out 121 hp. The power from the engine steps that up to 181 hp.

I wish Honda would explain exactly how they calculate the total horsepower of the Clarity to be 212 hp. They say only, "Total system horsepower as measured by the peak, concurrent output of the two electric motors and gasoline engine." How does the generator/motor contribute horsepower when it's operating as a generator?

 

[Landshark]

When running on battery power only, the Clarity PHEV's motor puts out 121 hp. The power from the engine steps that up to 181 hp.

Yep. Which is why I suggested that Honda may have opted to not include a true EV Mode, so as not to limit power output.