Regenerative braking best practices

How do you usually use regenerative braking?

  • I leave it at level 0 all the time

    Votes: 7 9.2%

  • I leave it at level 1 all the time

    Votes: 4 5.3%

  • I leave it at level 2 all the time

    Votes: 12 15.8%

  • I leave it at level 3 all the time

    Votes: 35 46.1%

  • I adjust it once before each trip

    Votes: 1 1.3%

  • I adjust it a couple of times each trip

    Votes: 8 10.5%

  • I am constantly adjusting it during a trip

    Votes: 8 10.5%

  • I didn't know I could change it / didn't know about the paddles

    Votes: 1 1.3%
  • Total voters
    76
We are living in a time where, what we have been doing for the last 100 years or so is really catching up with us. We think that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, illnesses, etc., of the last many years are problems. I would like to suggest, to you, that these are not the problems at all, but symptoms of a much bigger problem.


The real problem is transportation exhaust emissions, with a major portion of those emissions coming from PEM mobiles. PEM is my acronym for Poison Emitting Machines, which are any machines/engines powered by anything related to oil, i.e. gasoline, diesel fuel, etc. Absolute poison. (Research PM 2.5 airborne pollutants) If you question what I am stating, start your PEM mobile up in your garage with all of your doors and windows closed, and see how long you last.


The fact that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, and illnesses seem to affect older people, is simply because they have been breathing these toxins, and poisons that much longer than younger people, thereby compromising their lung effectiveness even more.


Please notice the aerial views that have been shown on some of the news stations, of several areas around the world, where just a few months before this latest virus/pandemic, the air around there was all hazy, and full of toxins, and other pollutants. Then those same aerial views, during the height of this pandemic, were showing perfectly clear air. Ozone alerts that happen in the warmer weather are simply the result of transportation exhaust emissions.


Big pharma doesn’t want to see big oil go away, because they profit so much from lower respiratory issues. We, the USA, have taken the biggest hit with regard to this covid bull crap, and our country is the largest consumer of oil, almost twice that of China. Imagine that! The evidence is empirical. We need to halt the production of PEM mobiles, convert to fully electric only vehicles, and take the lead on cleaning the air that we all breathe every day. We have to stop making excuses, and just do it.


Many claim that it is an inconvenience to own an electric car, because It takes longer to charge, etc. than to fill up at the nearest gas/poison station. Tell me, do you feel inconvenienced now? Just a thought.


Manny

Former Member of the Society of Automotive Engineers
 
As part of the protocol to "set the car up like a (car I'm used to)" for my wife, I set the auto regen to level 3 and the instrumentation to the normal one (not eco or sport).

She's been happy as a clam since last August with it...
 
NRH said:
I prefer not to overthink it, and I don't believe there's any reason to relearn how to drive with this car. Zero Regen and minimal use of both accelerator and brake pedal is most efficient in my understanding (just like any ICE car). The paddles are a clumsier way to apply the regenerative braking. The brake pedal does the same thing, allows modulation, and allows normal pre-EV efficient driving habits.

Nate
Click to expand...
I think you've hit the nail on the head. When you brake, the display shows that you're getting regeneration. Just like if you use the paddles. I will use regen =0 and brakes and see how that goes.
 
bsommerhalder said:
I get asked about regen braking a lot and best practices re: use of the paddles, so figured to create a post about it and also hear what others have to say.

After a few months with my 2020 (and 50,000km / 30,000 miles), here's how I now regularly use regen braking.

Really the idea is simply to use it like brakes, and like any car, try to reduce how much you use your brakes at all through driving habits.
  • As a rule, I have regen set to 0. I use as much accelerator as I need, and then take foot off the pedal and coast as needed.
  • When I need to slow down a bit to adjust my speed, I tap the left-hand paddle once to move up to regen 1. (Often I only need to let it stay on regen 1 for a few seconds, enough time to slow down a bit to correct my speed, then I right-paddle to bring back to regen 0 and simply accelerate / coast again.) If I need to slow down a little quicker, I'll paddle to regen 2 or 3 as needed.
  • If I can see I am actually needing to come to an upcoming stop, I will paddle my regen up as I approach my stop, slowing down more and more as I approach the stop, ending at regen 3 and then holding the left-hand paddle down to use regen to come to a complete stop. Then, when stopped, I paddle back down to regen 0, ready to accelerate again.
  • Most trips, I do not use the actual brake pedal *at all* -- or if I do it is to react to something that necessitates an immediate stop. (I often consider it a bit of a 'fail' if I have to use the brake pedal! --- I bet my brake pads will last the life of my car)
This technique has been the most energy efficient I have found, because 'coasting' is always going to be your most efficient mode of movement. Anything we do to get in the way of the car coasting is reducing its efficiency.

Let's say you are going down a steep hill. If the speed limit was not a concern and no one was in front of you, the most efficient thing you could do would be to turn off cruise control, set regen to 0, and let the car fall down the hill and pick up momentum, and then just let that momentum take you as far as it can go without having to apply more juice.

But of course, speed limits do matter and we can't just ram the backs of the cars in front of us, so WE get to use regen braking to reduce our speed -- when we need to -- rather than stinky ICE brakes. This same principle applies on a flat road too; no reason to "brake" more than you need to (even if it isn't hurting our brake pads).
Click to expand...
  • few seconds, enough time to slow down a bit to correct my speed, then I right-paddle to bring back to regen 0 and simply accelerate / coast again.) If I need to slow down a little quicker, I'll paddle to regen 2 or 3 as needed.
  • If I can see I am actually needing to come to an upcoming stop, I will paddle my regen up as I approach my stop, slowing down more and more as I approach the stop, ending at regen 3 and then holding the left-hand paddle down to use regen to come to a complete stop. Then, when stopped, I paddle back down to regen 0, ready to accelerate again.
  • Most trips, I do not use the actual brake pedal *at all* -- or if I do it is to react to something that necessitates an immediate stop. (I often consider it a bit of a 'fail' if I have to use the brake pedal! --- I bet my brake pads will last the life of my car)
This technique has been the most energy efficient I have found, because 'coasting' is always going to be your most efficient mode of movement. Anything we do to get in the way of the car coasting is reducing its efficiency.

Let's say you are going down a steep hill. If the speed limit was not a concern and no one was in front of you, the most efficient thing you could do would be to turn off cruise control, set regen to 0, and let the car fall down the hill and pick up momentum, and then just let that momentum take you as far as it can go without having to apply more juice.

But of course, speed limits do matter and we can't just ram the backs of the cars in front of us, so WE get to use regen braking to reduce our speed -- when we need to -- rather than stinky ICE brakes. This same principle applies on a flat road too; no reason to "brake" more than you need to (even if it isn't hurting our brake pads).
Click to expand...
The brake pads may last the life of the car but not the rotors.
I had to change the rotors on my 2016 Kia Soul EV to pass safety check at about 60,000 Km. The pads were hardly worn. I was always using "B", which is the term they use for regeneration. Seems that I never used the brakes enough to keep the rotors smooth.
 
autopro20 said:
We are living in a time where, what we have been doing for the last 100 years or so is really catching up with us. We think that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, illnesses, etc., of the last many years are problems. I would like to suggest, to you, that these are not the problems at all, but symptoms of a much bigger problem.
Click to expand...

How is this relevant to regenerative braking?
 
" Big pharma doesn’t want to see big oil go away, because they profit so much from lower respiratory issues." Wow that is some conspiracy theory. Is there any evidence to support it?

autopro20 said:
We are living in a time where, what we have been doing for the last 100 years or so is really catching up with us. We think that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, illnesses, etc., of the last many years are problems. I would like to suggest, to you, that these are not the problems at all, but symptoms of a much bigger problem.


The real problem is transportation exhaust emissions, with a major portion of those emissions coming from PEM mobiles. PEM is my acronym for Poison Emitting Machines, which are any machines/engines powered by anything related to oil, i.e. gasoline, diesel fuel, etc. Absolute poison. (Research PM 2.5 airborne pollutants) If you question what I am stating, start your PEM mobile up in your garage with all of your doors and windows closed, and see how long you last.


The fact that this virus, or any of the other lower respiratory viruses, diseases, and illnesses seem to affect older people, is simply because they have been breathing these toxins, and poisons that much longer than younger people, thereby compromising their lung effectiveness even more.


Please notice the aerial views that have been shown on some of the news stations, of several areas around the world, where just a few months before this latest virus/pandemic, the air around there was all hazy, and full of toxins, and other pollutants. Then those same aerial views, during the height of this pandemic, were showing perfectly clear air. Ozone alerts that happen in the warmer weather are simply the result of transportation exhaust emissions.


Big pharma doesn’t want to see big oil go away, because they profit so much from lower respiratory issues. We, the USA, have taken the biggest hit with regard to this covid bull crap, and our country is the largest consumer of oil, almost twice that of China. Imagine that! The evidence is empirical. We need to halt the production of PEM mobiles, convert to fully electric only vehicles, and take the lead on cleaning the air that we all breathe every day. We have to stop making excuses, and just do it.


Many claim that it is an inconvenience to own an electric car, because It takes longer to charge, etc. than to fill up at the nearest gas/poison station. Tell me, do you feel inconvenienced now? Just a thought.


Manny

Former Member of the Society of Automotive Engineers
Click to expand...
 
PM him if you want a response to that, it's not relevant to this thread.
Jeffrey Seuntjens said:
Just a speculative note, that while the motor slowing is ever stronger for higher settings, the amount of energy that the batteries can re-absorb is finite. It seems unlikely that the batteries can restore a larger portion of higher regen settings...
Click to expand...
The car will tell you if the battery has no more capacity to accept energy, no speculation required.
 
Last edited:
One thing I've been curious about - which, I admit, may be only tangentially related to this thread: when I use the paddles instead of the brake pedal, do the brake lights go on? If not, should I be concerned that the possibly inattentive driver behind me won't notice that I'm slowing down? I'm all for maximizing regen, but I'm wondering if I'm sacrificing safety.
[=sfc=]
 
SFC said:
One thing I've been curious about - which, I admit, may be only tangentially related to this thread: when I use the paddles instead of the brake pedal, do the brake lights go on? If not, should I be concerned that the possibly inattentive driver behind me won't notice that I'm slowing down? I'm all for maximizing regen, but I'm wondering if I'm sacrificing safety.
[=sfc=]
Click to expand...
Yes they do:
https://insideevsforum.com/communit...ifications-and-tweaks.5009/page-8#post-104201
Keep in mind that the brake lights will now stay on when fully stopped as well after the 00D005 update to the 4 modules (BMS,MCU,VCULDC an IGPM around July 2020)

Thanks to Esprit1st
 
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I've been confused about two things:

1. Doesn't the brake pedal also regenerate just like the paddles? I used to use the paddles more but it seems that using the brakes also shows charge being added to the battery, so is there difference?

2. To those using 3 all the time: doesn't it seem like you need more accelerator pedal power to overcome the resistance of the level 3 regen? In which case it's better to reduce the friction (paddles) unless going downhill enough to coast and charge. I descend a certain long downhill regularly and I try to see how much I can add to the charge. So I start with paddles at 0 to pick up some speed, then go to 1, then 2, maybe 3 but back down to 2. If I just had it on 3 the whole time I feel like I am using the accelerator to overcome that resistance.

I often drive 60 miles on a relatively flat highly with little traffic. I might be wrong but I put the paddles at zero to put the least resistance against the acceleration. When the highway does descend a bit, if I put on the paddle regen, I still feel I can't let it coast/charge and still maintain 70 mph, and if I use the accelerator I need to use more to overcome resistance.

Maybe I have this all wrong. Happy to hear comments
 
I think you are overthinking it...:) I just leave my car in ECO mode at level3, and let the car do all the thinking, and never use the paddles. Works perfectly, just does everything like I want and would expect.
 
Soona said:
Maybe I have this all wrong. Happy to hear comments
Click to expand...
Yes, you're somewhat over-thinking the way all this works.

Assuming you're interested in the best economy, picture this: Think of regen levels 1-3 as being similar to an ICE car automatically applying the brakes whenever you released the gas pedal. You would know instinctively that it wastes gasoline, so you would be careful about how often you let that happen.

The only difference with an EV is that instead of wasting 100% of the reduction in kinetic energy while the brakes are applied, you only lose about 20%.

So, the "rubber band" effect in Level 3 can be misleading as it feels like you're feeding energy to and from the battery in equal amounts. If you're in the habit of lifting your foot off the gas pedal every few seconds or have difficulty keeping steady pressure on it, Level 3 regen could, in-theory, lead to a higher energy consumption. Level 3 certainly makes driving more convenient and would not incur a loss in economy for drivers with a steady right foot.

Using Level 0 means every application of regen requires at least a semi-conscious effort to use the brake pedal (or left paddle) and so as a result you might be more inclined to coast up to the next red traffic light, etc, rather approach at-speed and apply a higher rate of regen to slow down.
 
Ever since I had the recalls done a coupe days ago my regen level is defaulting to 1 when I start the car. I can paddle back to 3, but the next off/on cycle returns it to 1. Did this happen to anyone else, and is there a setting adjustment I'm not aware of?
 
Jimct said:
Ever since I had the recalls done a coupe days ago my regen level is defaulting to 1 when I start the car. I can paddle back to 3, but the next off/on cycle returns it to 1. Did this happen to anyone else, and is there a setting adjustment I'm not aware of?
Click to expand...
It is possible one of the recalls has reset the coastal energy regeneration levels. I would check those settings in the center screen on all three drive modes and you should be fine:
index.php


Also detailed @ 1:25 of this video:

 
KiwiME said:
Yes, you're somewhat over-thinking the way all this works.

Assuming you're interested in the best economy, picture this: Think of regen levels 1-3 as being similar to an ICE car automatically applying the brakes whenever you released the gas pedal. You would know instinctively that it wastes gasoline, so you would be careful about how often you let that happen.

The only difference with an EV is that instead of wasting 100% of the reduction in kinetic energy while the brakes are applied, you only lose about 20%.

So, the "rubber band" effect in Level 3 can be misleading as it feels like you're feeding energy to and from the battery in equal amounts. If you're in the habit of lifting your foot off the gas pedal every few seconds or have difficulty keeping steady pressure on it, Level 3 regen could, in-theory, lead to a higher energy consumption. Level 3 certainly makes driving more convenient and would not incur a loss in economy for drivers with a steady right foot.

Using Level 0 means every application of regen requires at least a semi-conscious effort to use the brake pedal (or left paddle) and so as a result you might be more inclined to coast up to the next red traffic light, etc, rather approach at-speed and apply a higher rate of regen to slow down.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this perspective. Are you saying that when you depress the accelerator pedal, it "turns off" the paddle resistance until you release the accelerator again? I assumed that the accelerator is always trying to overcome the paddle resistance, which seemed like a net inefficiency, which is why I don't keep it on paddle 3. It certainly feels to me like the accelerator is fighting against the paddle resistance.
 
The regen is simply the reverse of applying power, energy goes back to the battery instead of being drawn from it. It isn't even possible for both to be happening at the same time.
 
Soona said:
Thanks for this perspective. Are you saying that when you depress the accelerator pedal, it "turns off" the paddle resistance until you release the accelerator again? I assumed that the accelerator is always trying to overcome the paddle resistance, which seemed like a net inefficiency, which is why I don't keep it on paddle 3. It certainly feels to me like the accelerator is fighting against the paddle resistance.
Click to expand...
Maybe actually seeing what's happening during acceleration and regen would be helpful. You can click the button that shows trip info and accumulated info several more times to get the small action graphic showing power flow to/from the battery. Play with accelerating and decelerating, and with the four regen options, to see what KiwiME described.
 
Soona asked ... "Doesn't the brake pedal also regenerate just like the paddles?"

Yes, using the normal brake pedal goes to regeneration first and doesn't hit the hydraulics at
all, until down to very low speeds or if the car senses that you're in a panic or aggressive stop.
This and the testing proof is detailed here.

So there's no harm or loss in staying in regen 0, enjoying the glide, and using the pedal normally.

_H*
 
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