Previous Tesla Model X owner / Satisfied Honda Clarity PHEV owner

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dstrauss said:
I just don't get the fugly comments from the auto press, and it almost always start with the rear wheel covers - SO WHAT - why is that inherently ugly, as if they have some superior design ethic. If anyone here has ever watched a show called Project Runway I want them to explain to me who anointed a sainted few to speak for what is good taste in design - same for the auto press.

In fact, one of the best observations ever came from a guy who parked next to me at the grocery store this weekend, asked about what a plug in hybrid is, said it was cool looking "But in sure is big for an electric car!" Honda needs to run with that. When I park next to a Prius I think the same thing as I marvel at the fact I can go 50 miles without ever starting the ICE compared to it.

Folks, this isn't Al Gore vs Big Oil, this is the best example of pure common sense ever - nearly eliminate exhaust emissions every day an individual tools around town in extreme comfort (rather than in a Suburban, Tahoe, Hummer, whatever) and yet cruise to grandma's 200 miles away on the weekend.

My apologies for the rant from this grumpy old man, but I guess the general stupidity of the auto press, that is still ruled by middle age boys wanting to daily drive a Dodge Challenger Hellcat, are getting to me.
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I did some math and here in Palm Springs I figure I pay $3.19 for a gal of gas to go 42 freeway miles. When it's plugged in at low rate night hours I pay about 26 cents a night to keep me going around town for about 52 miles since I never completely drain the battery around town. I can drive all around town for one month for about $8. Can't beat that!! And I have had many people comment on what a beautiful car it is. People are surprised it's a Honda.
 
Valente said:
I did some math and here in Palm Springs I figure I pay $3.19 for a gal of gas to go 42 freeway miles. When it's plugged in at low rate night hours I pay about 26 cents a night to keep me going around town for about 52 miles since I never completely drain the battery around town. I can drive all around town for one month for about $8. Can't beat that!! And I have had many people comment on what a beautiful car it is. People are surprised it's a Honda.
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You must not drive very far or have really cheap power. When the temperature is above 50 degrees and I drive 30 miles a day, I use about 10 KWh of power at 8.6 cents/KWh which cost me 86 cents per day.
 
bpratt said:
You must not drive very far or have really cheap power. When the temperature is above 50 degrees and I drive 30 miles a day, I use about 10 KWh of power at 8.6 cents/KWh which cost me 86 cents per day.
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Around town I don't drive alot. PalmSprings is a very small community. I drive about 15-25 mi/day and am on ECO all of the time. Not a lead footer as well. We're at 10 cents/KWh low rate period at night. It takes about 2-3 hours to recharge. I did notice a huge drop in battery when it dropped to 42 degrees at night. During the winter days (right now) we're around 72 degrees and not using the AC. I dread the upcoming summer months. My electric bill can run as high as $550/mo.
 
bpratt said:
Wow!!
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Oh - that's about average. Some people like myself, who doesn't have solar panels pay as much as $1500/mo. It's the AC that's expensive. Really depends on how large the house. I have 2500 sq ft. Thankfully, it's only about 3-4 months out of the year. And our electric company has different rate tiers. We charge our cars from 10P-8A. Peak during the day is 35 cents for winter and 45 cents for summer.
 
Valente said:
We charge our cars from 10P-8A. Peak during the day is 35 cents for winter and 45 cents for summer.
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I guess I really do have cheap power. From Oct 1 to Mar 31, power is 8.6 cents/KWh, 24 hours a day. From Apr 1 to Sept 30, power is 8.6 cents/KWh for the first 600 KWh then 9.63 cents/KWh after 600 KWh. We have no peak hours.
 
Valente said:
Oh - that's about average. Some people like myself, who doesn't have solar panels pay as much as $1500/mo. It's the AC that's expensive. Really depends on how large the house. I have 2500 sq ft. Thankfully, it's only about 3-4 months out of the year. And our electric company has different rate tiers. We charge our cars from 10P-8A. Peak during the day is 35 cents for winter and 45 cents for summer.
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Just a few hours south in San Diego, peak in the winter is 28¢/kWh and summer is 54¢/kwh. Things will likely get more expensive for you in the future. Whole state will soon be going to TOU and crazy peak rates. Solar was a good investment for us - particularly with a storage system which allows us to almost make it through the peak hours (4–9PM) using only the energy we stored during the day.
 
Valente said:
I did some math and here in Palm Springs I figure I pay $3.19 for a gal of gas to go 42 freeway miles. When it's plugged in at low rate night hours I pay about 26 cents a night to keep me going around town for about 52 miles since I never completely drain the battery around town. I can drive all around town for one month for about $8. Can't beat that!! And I have had many people comment on what a beautiful car it is. People are surprised it's a Honda.
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Valente said:
Around town I don't drive alot. PalmSprings is a very small community. I drive about 15-25 mi/day and am on ECO all of the time. Not a lead footer as well. We're at 10 cents/KWh low rate period at night. It takes about 2-3 hours to recharge. I did notice a huge drop in battery when it dropped to 42 degrees at night. During the winter days (right now) we're around 72 degrees and not using the AC. I dread the upcoming summer months. My electric bill can run as high as $550/mo.
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No wonder why that 26 cents a night is so cheap! It looks like you did your calculations wrong. You're taking 10 cents/kWh X 2-3 hours = 20 to 30 cents, which is incorrect. What you need to do is take 10 cents/kWh X kWh. A kWh is a measure of how much energy you're using. Let's say you can travel 40 miles using 12 kWh of the battery. Let's say that charging at home is 85% efficient, so to charge your battery, it would take 14.1 kWh to charge a 12 kWh battery. 10 cents/kWh X 14.1 kWh = $1.41.

I feel sorry for you guys paying that much for electricity. I'm currently paying about 7.5 cents per kWh, last year about 5 cents, and 3 cents the year before that.
 
dstrauss said:
My apologies for the rant from this grumpy old man, but I guess the general stupidity of the auto press, that is still ruled by middle age boys wanting to daily drive a Dodge Challenger Hellcat, are getting to me.
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Apologies? Sir, I congratulate you on your sadly all too uncommon, "common" sense!
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bfd said:
Just a few hours south in San Diego, peak in the winter is 28¢/kWh and summer is 54¢/kwh. Things will likely get more expensive for you in the future. Whole state will soon be going to TOU and crazy peak rates. Solar was a good investment for us - particularly with a storage system which allows us to almost make it through the peak hours (4–9PM) using only the energy we stored during the day.
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Yikes! At $.54/kWh, it’s probably cheaper using gas. :(

At my $.18/kWh here on L.I., the cost is already getting dicey. Gas prices here are $2.54/gallon.

This is not the way to encourage electric car use.
 
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Ken7 said:
Yikes! At $.54/kWh, it’s probably cheaper using gas. :(

At my $.18/kWh here on L.I., the cost is already getting dicey. Gas prices here are $2.54/gallon.

This is not the way to encourage electric car use.
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I would still put my faith in electrons over carbon molecules in the long run...says the guy who lives in the middle of America's oil and gas production...
 
Wow, I knew electric rates varied throughout the US but I didn't know it was by that much. Anyone know the reason? Taxes, cost of fuel to generate, etc.? I looked at my most recent bill. The stated rate is just over $0.06/kWh but there are taxes and fees so all in, it's about $0.10/kWh. Our gasoline is a bit above average ($2.86 for regular today) so it is much cheaper to run our car in EV mode, especially compared to our ICE only car which gets about 20-22 mpg in town. I can see now it could be cheaper to drive a regular Prius in some places than any EV.
 
PHEV Newbie said:
Wow, I knew electric rates varied throughout the US but I didn't know it was by that much. Anyone know the reason?
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I know at one time, several years back, there was a lot of mismanagement by the State of California regarding contracts for electricity and building out new capacity. I'm not a California resident and no doubt someone else can provide more details, but at one point the State mandated non-competitive bids for electricity supply, and they still use almost no energy from coal-fired power plants. Of course from the "green" perspective that's great, but cutting the State off from that source almost entirely does limit vendors, thus driving prices up.

But I'm not a resident of California, and no doubt someone else can provide more details about the specific case of crazy high rates (up to 54¢/kwh ?!?!) in the San Diego area.

Some people also complain about local fees in at least one region in the New York City area also driving prices up to, if I recall correctly, ~35¢/kwh. But that's probably not the average price; that may be peak summer rates.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
I know at one time, several years back, there was a lot of mismanagement by the State of California regarding contracts for electricity and building out new capacity. I'm not a California resident and no doubt someone else can provide more details, but at one point the State mandated non-competitive bids for electricity supply, and they still use almost no energy from coal-fired power plants. Of course from the "green" perspective that's great, but cutting the State off from that source almost entirely does limit vendors, thus driving prices up.

But I'm not a resident of California, and no doubt someone else can provide more details about the specific case of crazy high rates (up to 54¢/kwh ?!?!) in the San Diego area.

Some people also complain about local fees in at least one region in the New York City area also driving prices up to, if I recall correctly, ~35¢/kwh. But that's probably not the average price; that may be peak summer rates.
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I think that number may be wrong. I see 16.35¢/kWh
https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-diego/
It also says: "The average monthly residential electricity bill in California is $88, which ranks 42nd in the nation and is 17.76% less than the national average of $107 per month." So maybe CA is doing ok.
 
Pushmi-Pullyu said:
I know at one time, several years back, there was a lot of mismanagement by the State of California regarding contracts for electricity and building out new capacity. I'm not a California resident and no doubt someone else can provide more details, but at one point the State mandated non-competitive bids for electricity supply, and they still use almost no energy from coal-fired power plants. Of course from the "green" perspective that's great, but cutting the State off from that source almost entirely does limit vendors, thus driving prices up.

But I'm not a resident of California, and no doubt someone else can provide more details about the specific case of crazy high rates (up to 54¢/kwh ?!?!) in the San Diego area.

Some people also complain about local fees in at least one region in the New York City area also driving prices up to, if I recall correctly, ~35¢/kwh. But that's probably not the average price; that may be peak summer rates.
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Here's a local story about rate changes. Sounds like they are saying infrastructure updates are costly, in most part due to underground work.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/sd-fi-sdge-raterequest-20171006-story.html

The minimum ev tou is 22 cents to 54 cents summer peak.
https://www.sdge.com/clean-energy/ev-rates

What it is also bringing up is that in places with very cheap electrical rates, why are these vehicles not as popular. Of course gas tends to be cheap in such places, but you could fill up with "pocket change" in low cost areas.
 
Timothy said:
I think that number may be wrong. I see 16.35¢/kWh
https://www.electricitylocal.com/states/california/san-diego/
It also says: "The average monthly residential electricity bill in California is $88, which ranks 42nd in the nation and is 17.76% less than the national average of $107 per month." So maybe CA is doing ok.
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The issue is tier charges. If you exceed the first tier the price basically doubles for the additional kWh. Solar salesman told me Hawaii is the highest in the nation and San Diego second per kWh.
 
ab13 said:
What it is also bringing up is that in places with very cheap electrical rates, why are these vehicles not as popular. Of course gas tends to be cheap in such places, but you could fill up with "pocket change" in low cost areas.
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It's still rather early in the EV revolution. We're still in the "early adopter" stage of this tech. With only a 1-2% market penetration, it's no surprise that EVs are scarce as hen's teeth in many areas. From reports I've read, it's only in areas specializing in high tech industry, such as Silicon Valley and Austin TX's "Silicon Hills", that seeing EVs on the streets is quite common.

As many have noted, the motivation for people buying EVs at this early stage of the EV revolution doesn't seem to be saving money on fuel. (At least not in the U.S.; it may be more so in Europe, where petrol prices are much higher.) So it doesn't surprise me that at least in the USA, EV adoption is largely disconnected from local electricity rates.
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PHEV Newbie said:
Our gasoline is a bit above average ($2.86 for regular today) so it is much cheaper to run our car in EV mode, especially compared to our ICE only car which gets about 20-22 mpg in town. I can see now it could be cheaper to drive a regular Prius in some places than any EV.
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Gas by me was that price earlier in the week, now it is $2.17 and I'm sure tomorrow it will be $2.40, or some other random price. That constant fluctuation was one of the main reasons I went electric to begin with. I also hate how gas stations are the only places that charge by tenths of a cent. Really?
 
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