Opinion on regenerating brake

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brewer Fan
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Brewer Fan said:
My son claims that using regenerating pedal on car uses more battery than using brake pedal…opinions?
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Regenerative braking, by definition, adds charge back to the battery. It uses the energy from slowing down to charge the battery, whereas using the friction brakes wastes energy as heat. In addition, there is no way to turn off regenerative braking on the SE, so it's always being used. If you can, it's best to use regenerative braking as much as possible (one pedal driving).

I sometimes like to see if I can get the battery % to go up during regenerative braking, and often do get it to go up by 1%.
 
Kids are not listening to any one but as young person he should educate himself how regenerative brakes works when he slams on brakes in ACE car some one have to pay for replacement in EV car you can drive 100000 miles without replacing a brake pads . Don’t be negligent and learn about new technology in EV or don’t let him use a car .Walking is good for everyone!
 
Rexsio said:
Kids are not listening to any one but as young person he should educate himself how regenerative brakes works when he slams on brakes in ACE car some one have to pay for replacement in EV car you can drive 100000 miles without replacing a brake pads . Don’t be negligent and learn about new technology in EV or don’t let him use a car .Walking is good for everyone!
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The best advice you ever going to hear from stranger as I did with 2 my sons after graduations from college and advanced degrees as a successful professionals I took them of my insurance for cars and took away my credits cards this is the best way for kids to advance with life and regen braking is nothing!
 
Avoid the brake pedal when possible.
Brakes turn the kinetic energy into heat, just wasting that energy and wearing down your brake pads.
Regenerative braking converts kinetic energy into electrical energy (charge to the battery) and a tiny bit wasted to heat.
Tell your son to retake high school physics regarding energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted. And think about how that applies to electric cars and gasoline cars and braking etc.
 
There is one case where lifting off the accelerator pedal doesn't generate power to charge the battery. That's when the battery is fully charged. Then the SE is faking regen braking by applying the friction brakes, just as if you pressed the brake pedal. I must say it does a good job of simulating regen braking because I can't feel any difference.
 
insightman said:
There is one case where lifting off the accelerator pedal doesn't generate power to charge the battery. That's when the battery is fully charged. Then the SE is faking regen braking by applying the friction brakes, just as if you pressed the brake pedal.
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I hadn't thought of it until now, but your point is a reason to ABC to 100% (e.g., overnight in your garage), as it results in automatic friction brake "maintenance".

Of course, I suppose you could apply the same logic to bounding around roundabouts, to activate stability control.:)
 
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Brewer Fan said:
My son claims that using regenerating pedal on car uses more battery than using brake pedal…opinions?
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That's a strange metric using battery usage to compare regenerative braking versus friction braking. For example, if the car was parked, the battery usage of the regenerating pedal would equal that of the brake pedal. HOWEVER, if you are strictly speaking about the energy ("more battery") required to come to a full stop (from acceleration) there is an argument where on average the regenerative braking is higher than friction braking.

Assuming that tire-road friction is zero and the conservation of energy holds true, the kinetic energy ("KE") used to come to a full stop from acceleration with friction braking is KE/4 for all four brakes on the MINI, but it is KE/2 on the regenerative brakes due to the electric motor being connected FWD only. THEREFORE the energy per tire is DOUBLE for regenerative braking compared to friction braking.
 
teslarati97 said:
That's a strange metric using battery usage to compare regenerative braking versus friction braking. For example, if the car was parked, the battery usage of the regenerating pedal would equal that of the brake pedal. HOWEVER, if you are strictly speaking about the energy ("more battery") required to come to a full stop (from acceleration) there is an argument where on average the regenerative braking is higher than friction braking.

Assuming that tire-road friction is zero and the conservation of energy holds true, the kinetic energy ("KE") used to come to a full stop from acceleration with friction braking is KE/4 for all four brakes on the MINI, but it is KE/2 on the regenerative brakes due to the electric motor being connected FWD only. THEREFORE the energy per tire is DOUBLE for regenerative braking compared to friction braking.
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If tire-road friction were indeed zero, it wouldn't matter what causes how many wheels to slow down. The car would keep sliding until air resistance brought it to a stop.
 
I think it’s the same kind of populist misinformation as “setting your home thermostat back wastes more energy than it saves.” Of the 70 or so people in my workplace, two own EVs and two more of us have ordered, with maybe a handful of others considering. The amount of FUD I hear on a daily basis about BEVs, PHEVs, general thermodynamics, densification, public transit, you name it… it makes me sad.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
If tire-road friction were indeed zero, it wouldn't matter what causes how many wheels to slow down. The car would keep sliding until air resistance brought it to a stop.
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That would still support that the "regenerating pedal on car uses more battery than using brake pedal" per the OP's son's claim. More of the kinetic energy (originating from the battery) is diverted to regeneration compared to coasting to a stop (air & tire friction) where no brakes are applied. The point is in the absence of coasting to a stop, regenerative braking takes double the energy per tire in the MINI compared to friction braking because the regenerative braking system is only FWD (motor runs in reverse) and the friction brakes are on all four wheels. That's statistics for you!
 
teslarati97 said:
That would still support that the "regenerating pedal on car uses more battery than using brake pedal" per the OP's son's claim. More of the kinetic energy (originating from the battery) is diverted to regeneration compared to coasting to a stop (air & tire friction) where no brakes are applied. The point is in the absence of coasting to a stop, regenerative braking takes double the energy per tire in the MINI compared to friction braking because the regenerative braking system is only FWD (motor runs in reverse) and the friction brakes are on all four wheels. That's statistics for you!
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I am afraid that I still don't get your point. The amount of energy dissipated per wheel is irrelevant; the only question is how much of the total kinetic energy of the vehicle is converted to electricity vs. dissipated as heat.

(Of course, on a frictionless surface such as you originally posited, no energy conversion would occur via either braking system, as even a very small resistive force - i.e., that equal to the rotational/inertial force of the wheel - would cause the braked wheels to stop turning.)
 
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CuriousGeorge said:
I am afraid that I still don't get your point. The amount of energy dissipated per wheel is irrelevant; the only question is how much of the total kinetic energy of the vehicle is converted to electricity vs. dissipated as heat.

(Of course, on a frictionless surface such as you originally posited, no energy conversion would occur via either braking system, as even a very small resistive force - i.e., that equal to the rotational aero drag of the wheel - would cause the braked wheels to stop turning.)
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Just trying to make a case for the son of the OP: "My son claims that using regenerating pedal on car uses more battery than using brake pedal".

The whole average energy per wheel (2 wheel FWD regen vs 4 wheel brake) is supposed to be silly as the total energy in the system is still conserved. However this kind of thinking is commonly utilized in many industries and government. ;)
 
There's no way to turn regenerative braking off? I often find myself coasting when in traffic, rather than tapping my brakes every couple of seconds. Feel like the automatic regen braking will be more annoying than helpful.
 
CastleWolfenstein said:
There's no way to turn regenerative braking off? I often find myself coasting when in traffic, rather than tapping my brakes every couple of seconds. Feel like the automatic regen braking will be more annoying than helpful.
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Korean brands and the Korean designed Chevy bolt are equipped with a brake regen paddles. MINI drivers unfortunately are stuck with light pressure on the throttle to coast.

The IONIQ5 i-Pedal, one of the five brake regen profiles, in the is most similar to the MINI maximum brake regen, but it has to be selected every time you start the vehicle. Clearly Koreans don't one pedal drive by default.
 
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