Newbie here, wife getting her 2021 Kona (preferred) six months earlier than expected.

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navguy12 said:
I guess we do have the same dealership.
Click to expand...
I was just reading some of your comments about your wife’s car. I have a 2019 Kona.
I do find the steering lacking in precision and it’s just how it is with mine. It does drive in a straight line mostly.
The winter tires I had last winter were Michelin X-ICE. Car handles fantastic even in a deep snow. I drove it 54 km to and from work on the highway covered in think ice, snow, slush and all when the highway #1 was closed in BC, Canada last winter. Snow is a disaster in greater Vancouver and the valley I will say that Kona handled better than my 4WD Honda with the same tires on.
The only thing is that energy consumption significantly increase in winter and with soft winter tires. As well, all the sensors at the front get blocked when it’s snowing outside.
As well, it is really important to disable regenerative breaking if driving in super icy conditions.
 
JellyCat said:
I was just reading some of your comments about your wife’s car. I have a 2019 Kona.
I do find the steering lacking in precision and it’s just how it is with mine. It does drive in a straight line mostly.
The winter tires I had last winter were Michelin X-ICE. Car handles fantastic even in a deep snow. I drove it 54 km to and from work on the highway covered in think ice, snow, slush and all when the highway #1 was closed in BC, Canada last winter. Snow is a disaster in greater Vancouver and the valley I will say that Kona handled better than my 4WD Honda with the same tires on.
The only thing is that energy consumption significantly increase in winter and with soft winter tires. As well, all the sensors at the front get blocked when it’s snowing outside.
As well, it is really important to disable regenerative breaking if driving in super icy conditions.
Click to expand...
All good observations...and the energy consumption + regen points are spot on with any EV in the winter.

-----------

Our return trip back to home numbers:

We departed after sunset with 89% SOC (my wife did some driving around town the previous day, thus only 89% versus 90% showing):

departure SOC 89.webp

Conditions required all running lights on and high beams used at least 33% of the trip, dry roads, headwind component of 10 kph, average temperature 5c with an HVAC setting of 20c.

I like the feature of the HVAC system telling the driver when it is producing heat versus just pushing air.

Like my TM3 HVAC in winter, I set the HVAC to fresh air only, no AC, fan speed one, airflow to windscreen and floor.

The trip odometer at the end of the trip (95 kph was the cruise speed):

home post trip odometer.webp

home arrival SOC 30.webp

Based on the above data, I estimate the energy consumption was (.154 x 259.5) = 39.96 kWh.

The trip to Ottawa two days ago (@ 11c, 90 kph and 15 kph tailwind (75 kph "still air" equivalent)) used 33.14 kWh.

This trip home, with headlamps on, with 6c cooler temperatures and a "still air" equivalent factor (95+10 = 105) that was 40 kph higher, resulted in a 20% energy use increase.

---------

The trip home used an indicated 59% SOC with 39.96 kWh consumed.

Based on that information, my estimate for the usable energy capacity of the battery is ((100/59) x 39.96) = 67.72 kWh.

The 60% push to top-up back to 90% late last night/early today totaled 44.611 kWh:

refill_30_to_90_12oct2020.webp
Based on the above information, with 44.611 kWh being pushed to raise the battery SOC (90% - 30%) 60%, then it would take ((100/60) × 44.611) = 74.35 kWh pushed to the battery to raise it from a theoretical zero SOC to 100% SOC.

With both trips, my estimate of 67ish kWh as the available capacity seems good.

However, rounding errors may have really muddied my first estimate of inverter losses.

With my second trip estimate of 74ish kWh as the required push from the grid for a full top up, I now estimate the on board charger losses at about 10ish percent.

So, unless someone can find fault with my math, I think 67 kWh is my usable capacity and I have about 10% inverter losses when charging.
 
navguy12 said:
All good observations...and the energy consumption + regen points are spot on with any EV in the winter.

-----------

Our return trip back to home numbers:

We departed after sunset with 89% SOC (my wife did some driving around town the previous day, thus only 89% versus 90% showing):

View attachment 9536

Conditions required all running lights on and high beams used at least 33% of the trip, dry roads, headwind component of 10 kph, average temperature 5c with an HVAC setting of 20c.

I like the feature of the HVAC system telling the driver when it is producing heat versus just pushing air.

Like my TM3 HVAC in winter, I set the HVAC to fresh air only, no AC, fan speed one, airflow to windscreen and floor.

The trip odometer at the end of the trip (95 kph was the cruise speed):

View attachment 9537

View attachment 9538

Based on the above data, I estimate the energy consumption was (.154 x 259.5) = 39.96 kWh.

The trip to Ottawa two days ago (@ 11c, 90 kph and 15 kph tailwind (75 kph "still air" equivalent)) used 33.14 kWh.

This trip home, with headlamps on, with 6c cooler temperatures and a "still air" equivalent factor (95+10 = 105) that was 40 kph higher, resulted in a 20% energy use increase.

---------

The trip home used an indicated 59% SOC with 39.96 kWh consumed.

Based on that information, my estimate for the usable energy capacity of the battery is ((100/59) x 39.96) = 67.72 kWh.

The 60% push to top-up back to 90% late last night/early today totaled 44.611 kWh:

View attachment 9539
Based on the above information, with 44.611 kWh being pushed to raise the battery SOC (90% - 30%) 60%, then it would take ((100/60) × 44.611) = 74.35 kWh pushed to the battery to raise it from a theoretical zero SOC to 100% SOC.

With both trips, my estimate of 67ish kWh as the available capacity seems good.

However, rounding errors may have really muddied my first estimate of inverter losses.

With my second trip estimate of 74ish kWh as the required push from the grid for a full top up, I now estimate the on board charger losses at about 10ish percent.

So, unless someone can find fault with my math, I think 67 kWh is my usable capacity and I have about 10% inverter losses when charging.
Click to expand...
Math looks good, the 10% losses during charging is a actually due to the converter (on board charger) ;)
 
I’m a newbie here. This is my first post. Just got our Kona 3 wks ago. So far it’s
been a great experience.
I just want to add, the build date was July 26 / 2020
So I guess we also dodged a bullet. I wonder if anyone here yet knows what’s been
changed since March ?
 
Barry T said:
I wonder if anyone here yet knows what’s been
changed since March ?
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Forum.

Here are two threads that should (eventually) capture the precise answer to your question:

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...ng-to-this-11-oct-news-item.9728/#post-111967

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...-bms-update-and-20-reduce-cell-capacity.9707/

IMHO: the software has been altered to make normal day to day BMS measurements more sensitive than they were before. If the new sensitivity throws an error code, it alerts you prior to some sort of catastrophic battery fire.
 
Based on your posts, it sounds like you're not aware of the fact that % SOC indicators in most EVs (including the Kona or Tesla M3) are not perfectly linear. This means you can't extrapolate a total kWh rating of full battery by only depleting a few kWh. There will be a large error. To reduce the error, you need to deplete the battery as close to 0% as possible.

To save you the trouble, others have already done these tests and shown ~64 kWh useable, just as advertised. Exact results will very based on temperature and rate of discharge but you're unlikely to ever pull 67 kWh from the battery.
 
Last edited:
Barry T said:
I’m a newbie here. This is my first post. Just got our Kona 3 wks ago. So far it’s
been a great experience.
I just want to add, the build date was July 26 / 2020
So I guess we also dodged a bullet. I wonder if anyone here yet knows what’s been
changed since March ?
Click to expand...

The new BMS likely protects the battery from additional damage. Since yours is new it has no previous damage to deal with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wizziwig said:
Based on your posts, it sounds like you're not aware of the fact that % SOC indicators in most EVs (including the Kona or Tesla M3) are not perfectly linear. This means you can't extrapolate a total kWh rating of full battery by only depleting a few kWh. There will be a large error. To reduce the error, you need to deplete the battery as close to 0% as possible.

To save you the trouble, others have already done these tests and shown ~64 kWh useable, just as advertised. Exact results will very based on temperature and rate of discharge but you're unlikely to ever pull 67 kWh from the battery.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The most that will probably ever be uplifted in a single recharge event will be 90% later this winter...
 
A single data point, on what is (in the Tesla world) colloquially known as "vampire drain".

The last charge event, up to 90% SOC, ended at 0320 GMT, 31 Oct 2020.

I just checked the SOC at 1616 GMT, 10 Nov 2020:

IMG_0607.webp

I'm more than impressed with only one percent "lost*" over a 10.5 day period.

* Obviously the stored energy is not simply "lost", it is used to (among other things) keep the 12 volt battery topped up while said 12 volt battery keeps other sundry services active/awake.
 
navguy12 said:
A single data point, on what is (in the Tesla world) colloquially known as "vampire drain".

The last charge event, up to 90% SOC, ended at 0320 GMT, 31 Oct 2020.

I just checked the SOC at 1616 GMT, 10 Nov 2020:

View attachment 9903

I'm more than impressed with only one percent "lost*" over a 10.5 day period.

* Obviously the stored energy is not simply "lost", it is used to (among other things) keep the 12 volt battery topped up while said 12 volt battery keeps other sundry services active/awake.
Click to expand...
No Sentry Mode to worry about with Kona;)
 
Noting that charging stops when the set SoC value is just reached, 90% in your example. It only takes a small drain to take it under that, e.g. to 89.99%, which will read as 89%. To measure quiescent drain you could observe the next drop, e.g. from 89.99 to 88.99, which is actually the implied 1%.
 
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