Mini Cooper SE autocross first impressions

As any good snow belt driver can appreciate, wheel spin can be a big help in the deep stuff, or when a decent snowfall gets masticated by tires into what is affectionately known as “road snot.” My aforementioned smart, weighing all of 1600 lbs with a wheelbase almost the same as the car’s track width, had no ESP-off switch (for good reason). Getting through some intersections from a stop, especially on slight inclines, was embarrassing. But the aftermarket stepped in with a blank OBD plug that shorted two pins which effectively turned all the nannies completely off. For temporary use to get unstuck, it was invaluable.
 
drdunkyn said:
Ok, take this down a notch. You mis-took my response without sarcasm. I have NO idea how MINI makes this work, just going for an objective assessment. Just try these comparisons on your own. I'm not actually implying the existence of Fairy Dust. Maybe try the settings I suggested, and then reply. I don't know how MINI modulates steering with driving setting changes. Maybe take it out on them?
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In the interest of honesty and transparency, as well as curiosity: Today I switched to Mid mode to refresh my memory about my previous experience that I so vehemently crowed about regarding torque-steer. I swear to you all, it was a fraction of what it was before I changed my default to Sport. The Mid steering was easier, so it did actually change, but I didn't have anywhere near the grappling I had last month. How is this possible?? Again, I acknowledge my complete ignorance on how MINI wiggles our tires, but what could account for such a profound difference? Is it reading my driving style? I can't accept a tire wear-in claim since it was immediately better in Sport. Holy crap -- maybe there IS fairy dust involved!!!! I officially take back my snarky responses, but will leave them there for the sake of posterity. Insightman, I yield the floor...
 
drdunkyn said:
In the interest of honesty and transparency, as well as curiosity: Today I switched to Mid mode to refresh my memory about my previous experience that I so vehemently crowed about regarding torque-steer. I swear to you all, it was a fraction of what it was before I changed my default to Sport. The Mid steering was easier, so it did actually change, but I didn't have anywhere near the grappling I had last month. How is this possible?? Again, I acknowledge my complete ignorance on how MINI wiggles our tires, but what could account for such a profound difference? Is it reading my driving style? I can't accept a tire wear-in claim since it was immediately better in Sport. Holy crap -- maybe there IS fairy dust involved!!!! I officially take back my snarky responses, but will leave them there for the sake of posterity. Insightman, I yield the floor...
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You felt what you felt. I hope you didn' t think I was demanding an engineering white-paper. I just couldn't understand how the more powerful mode would deliver less torque-steer.

I've spent all of perhaps 5 miles in Sport Mode, so I'm used to bounding about roundabouts in Mid Mode and just never thought the torque-steer was excessive. If I ever feel jaded with the SE's acceleration and light steering in Mid Mode, I'll be exploring Sport Mode.
 
SameGuy said:
As any good snow belt driver can appreciate, wheel spin can be a big help in the deep stuff, or when a decent snowfall gets masticated by tires into what is affectionately known as “road snot.” My aforementioned smart, weighing all of 1600 lbs with a wheelbase almost the same as the car’s track width, had no ESP-off switch (for good reason). Getting through some intersections from a stop, especially on slight inclines, was embarrassing. But the aftermarket stepped in with a blank OBD plug that shorted two pins which effectively turned all the nannies completely off. For temporary use to get unstuck, it was invaluable.
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Agreed! As with all cars, turning off traction control is really only for slippery conditions where you can't get the wheels to turn due to lack of grip. This was a bad issue for the Prius with early iterations, where you could be sitting on railroad tracks and couldn't move due to the wheel-spin on the rail. Same with snow/ice, when you overcome the very low friction to move the tire, the car will move forward (unless on a steep upward incline), and you can actually control forward motion. In regular driving, though, this isn't necessary, and results in stupid wheel-spin akin to my 1980 VW Diesel Rabbit where I felt cool launching it just to make a squeak. In my BMW I turned it off during autocross to try to more closely in tune with the car, while modulating thrust out of corners. Given my lack of skill, and a great deal of cowardice, it gave me a tenth of second off my time, and didn't enhance my enjoyment.
 
insightman said:
You felt what you felt. I hope you didn' t think I was demanding an engineering white-paper. I just couldn't understand how the more powerful mode would deliver less torque-steer.

I've spent all of perhaps 5 miles in Sport Mode, so I'm used to bounding about roundabouts in Mid Mode and just never thought the torque-steer was excessive. If I ever feel jaded with the SE's acceleration and light steering in Mid Mode, I'll be exploring Sport Mode.
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Yes, SIIIIR! I really can't explain my experience even my update. I can only say that my Mid experience when I took possession of Larry that I was very put=off but the TS in Mid, and thought I would never look back. I have a different perspceive now and I can't explain it. I'll to some more evaluations but suspect I'll probably land back in Mid.
 
For the last year, my SE has only left sport mode when I am on a long (ish) highway trip up the coast. I prefer the weight of the steering and throttle response in sport. I have never had any issues with torque steer, or even noticed it to be honest. On a good, non slippery road with the wheels pointing straight ahead, I can boot the SE without consideration. It goes dead straight, with no wheel spin and catapults of the line. I managed a blip of wheel spin in the wet the other day with my 20k km old tyres before the traction control quelled it. I pump my tyres to the performance level (35 front, 32 rear), not the "economy" pressures. This may help, or it could just be 10 different cars, 10 different amounts of torque steer :)
 
Lol I got to drive a new Shelby GLH-S (the one based on the Dodge Omni hatch) in 1986, and with 175 ft·lbf twisting the front axles, a stomp on the pedal was basically a lane change!
 
drdunkyn said:
In the interest of honesty and transparency, as well as curiosity: Today I switched to Mid mode to refresh my memory about my previous experience that I so vehemently crowed about regarding torque-steer. I swear to you all, it was a fraction of what it was before I changed my default to Sport. The Mid steering was easier, so it did actually change, but I didn't have anywhere near the grappling I had last month. How is this possible?? Again, I acknowledge my complete ignorance on how MINI wiggles our tires, but what could account for such a profound difference? Is it reading my driving style? I can't accept a tire wear-in claim since it was immediately better in Sport. Holy crap -- maybe there IS fairy dust involved!!!! I officially take back my snarky responses, but will leave them there for the sake of posterity. Insightman, I yield the floor...
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I've had some very violent occurrences of torque steer due to the giant ruts in the road from studded tires. The ruts can be deep enough where they function like auto steer and will keep you in the lane without any driver input!

When I cross these ruts at an angle under acceleration (for example during a short merge) the wheel tries to rip itself out of my grip! It's fast/strong enough that the wheel will slide through my fingers if I'm not already prepared and gripping tighter than normal.

Maybe you hit a similar situation in mid that just happened to resolve when you changed to sport?
 
I’ve experienced that in almost every small car, even gutless ones. The road ruts — mostly caused by largeq trucks — are typically farther apart than a small car’s track, so the car goes hunting for the steering’s center, and the effect is amplified under acceleration.
 
ColdCase said:
I only notice torque steer when turning or accelerating out of a turn... but that may just be me..
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Not just you. This has been my experience, as well.

I have also noticed that torque steer is greatly reduced when running on wider wheels & tires.
 
I let my friend drive my SE last week: his response when he mashed the accelerator, "This thing is out of control. Too much torque."

Like others, it's manageable accelerating in a straight line. Too much out of a turn.
 
The torque steer is what I expected from 200 ft-lbs of torque. I've driven higher HP and torque FWD cars which definitely had more torque steer and I've driven FWD cars with less torque but had more torque steer. 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo comes to mind which had pretty severe torque steer.
 
JonR said:
1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo comes to mind which had pretty severe torque steer.
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Especially with an oversized replacement turbo.:confused:


(Never did learn to drive that car smoothly enough to get the best 0-60 time...too busy wrestling with the steering wheel trying to keep the thing going in a straight line to shift before hitting the rev limiter, which would briefly cut all power, thus slamming you forward right after you had been slammed backwards.)
 
ColdCase said:
I think torque steer is the tendency of a vehicle to vier off when you apply engine power. Following ruts and imperfections in the road is tramlining. Two different things, although suspension geometry and tires could affect both.
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Maybe I wasn't clear in my description (kinda hard to describe), the car was trying to yank the wheel towards the curb as I crossed over the ruts to another lane (trying to turn the car perpendicular to the ruts). Maybe not the typical definition of torque steer but it was wheel torque causing the steering (due to the uneven road)
 
JonR said:
1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse turbo comes to mind which had pretty severe torque steer.
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LOL!
I was going to add that the first really modern, “high-powered” car I drove that had big lungs and balanced handling was a 1990 Talon TSI AWD. I played with it a LOT on demo rides, and it was as fun to drive on twisties as a runabout as it was on long freeway runs like a GT. DSM officially said its 4G63 Turbo was limited to 230 km/h (143 mph) but I’m not allowed to tell you there was no limiter and it easily got to the 6900 rpm redline in 5th! My EDC was an 88 Pulsar NX at the time and I got to drive my partner’s 86 635 CSi all the time, but cruising in that Talon all winter made a lasting impression on me. “Balanced” and “planted” don’t necessarily mean “forgettable.”
 
Carsten Haase said:
I've had some very violent occurrences of torque steer due to the giant ruts in the road from studded tires. The ruts can be deep enough where they function like auto steer and will keep you in the lane without any driver input!

When I cross these ruts at an angle under acceleration (for example during a short merge) the wheel tries to rip itself out of my grip! It's fast/strong enough that the wheel will slide through my fingers if I'm not already prepared and gripping tighter than normal.

Maybe you hit a similar situation in mid that just happened to resolve when you changed to sport?
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Good point, I've done more experimenting just this afternoon and it does appear to be a combination of road condition and turning. A slight irregularity in the road triggers it when going straight, and punching it in a turn does too, as I noticed before. In Sport mode it is negligible in these situations. I will be keeping my default setting!

Forgot to add that after watching the classic Mini with Tesla engine had freakish torque-steer (and was wicked-fast, of course). Obviously they didn't have the modulating tech that the SE does in everything else, especially the steering controls in place. I'm guessing the heavier feel of steering in Sport mode translates into less response to torque steer in the hands. Anyway, thrilled with Sport, won't leave it again unless I'm driving to Boston.
 
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Carsten Haase said:
Maybe I wasn't clear in my description (kinda hard to describe), the car was trying to yank the wheel towards the curb as I crossed over the ruts to another lane (trying to turn the car perpendicular to the ruts). Maybe not the typical definition of torque steer but it was wheel torque causing the steering (due to the uneven road)
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Thats technically tramlining. This is your vehicle’s tendency to follow the contours of the road instead of your steering input as a result of one tire edge riding up on the contour while the other is unloaded. Your car can unexpectedly pull left or right. The vehicle has a tendency to follow the ruts and grooves in the road surface. It can be quite an effort to maintain the directional control of the vehicle in such cases. It is impossible to completely avoid tramlining, all vehicles do it. The tramlining effect is more prominent with performance, wide, and low profile tires than soft flexible sidewall comfort tires.

I've read that BMW drivers often complain of tramlining because most of them come fitted with run-flat tires. The run flat tires have a very stiff sidewall that’s resistant to flex and unable to absorb road shocks. This increases the chances of tramlining.
 
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SameGuy said:
LOL!
I was going to add that the first really modern, “high-powered” car I drove that had big lungs and balanced handling was a 1990 Talon TSI AWD.
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My buddy loved his. Loads of fun, he put a lot of miles on it and in any weather condition. I do recall often going out to rescue him when it died on the highway, after it reached 150,000 miles or so. He kept fixing it until it fell apart, literally. :)
 
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