Mini Cooper SE autocross first impressions

S

senior_neet_engineer

New Member
The car was completely stock, including the Pirelli P7 tires. Low regen. Started in sport mode, but the power modulation was too difficult so I switched to green. Disabled traction control I think? Held switch for a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed with the low turn in grip and how planted the chassis was. Tires overheated quickly, especially with sweeper after longer braking zone. Body roll was exaggerated on slalom, like piloting a boat. Didn’t notice any excessive tire shoulder wear, other than the rubber turning blue in some spots. Didn’t record exact battery usage, but it was negligible.
 
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senior_neet_engineer said:
The car was completely stock, including the Pirelli P7 tires. Low regen. Started in sport mode, but the power modulation was too difficult so I switched to green. Disabled traction control I think? Held switch for a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed with the low turn in grip and how planted the chassis was. Tires overheated quickly, especially with sweeper after longer braking zone. Body roll was exaggerated on slalom, like piloting a boat. Didn’t notice any excessive tire shoulder wear, other than the rubber turning blue in some spots. Didn’t record exact battery usage, but it was negligible.
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I've never driven in an autocross, but I'm surprised Green mode worked better than Sport or Mid modes.

You mean the chassis wasn't planted, right? And the Pirellis didn't provide the grip you hoped for? How much did the SE's extra weight contribute to these problems? Do you think the tires overheated due to the weight of the car or are they just the wrong tires for autocrossing?

I wanted to believe my SE was just a good driver away from being a good autocross car--I'm very disappointed. Still, it's the most fun-to-drive car I've ever owned, but I won't be adding autocross to my bucket list.
 
senior_neet_engineer said:
The car was completely stock, including the Pirelli P7 tires. Low regen. Started in sport mode, but the power modulation was too difficult so I switched to green. Disabled traction control I think? Held switch for a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed with the low turn in grip and how planted the chassis was. Tires overheated quickly, especially with sweeper after longer braking zone. Body roll was exaggerated on slalom, like piloting a boat. Didn’t notice any excessive tire shoulder wear, other than the rubber turning blue in some spots. Didn’t record exact battery usage, but it was negligible.
Click to expand...

Not sure how the P7s compare to the 16" Hankooks mine came with but switching to 215/45R17 BFGoodrich Comp2 A/S tires completely transformed the handling. Steering felt much more precise and there was a heck of a lot less sidewall flex (which can feel a bit like body roll). Ride was definitely more harsh and range took a huge hit but it was worth it for me!

Alignment still needs a change to remove understeer but I haven't gotten around to that yet
 
senior_neet_engineer said:
The car was completely stock, including the Pirelli P7 tires. Low regen. Started in sport mode, but the power modulation was too difficult so I switched to green. Disabled traction control I think? Held switch for a few seconds.

I was underwhelmed with the low turn in grip and how planted the chassis was. Tires overheated quickly, especially with sweeper after longer braking zone. Body roll was exaggerated on slalom, like piloting a boat. Didn’t notice any excessive tire shoulder wear, other than the rubber turning blue in some spots. Didn’t record exact battery usage, but it was negligible.
Click to expand...

Tire pressures?
 
insightman said:
I've never driven in an autocross, but I'm surprised Green mode worked better than Sport or Mid modes.

You mean the chassis wasn't planted, right? And the Pirellis didn't provide the grip you hoped for? How much did the SE's extra weight contribute to these problems? Do you think the tires overheated due to the weight of the car or are they just the wrong tires for autocrossing?

I wanted to believe my SE was just a good driver away from being a good autocross car--I'm very disappointed. Still, it's the most fun-to-drive car I've ever owned, but I won't be adding autocross to my bucket list.
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I didn’t check the times. Maybe sport is faster. But the throttle mapping is not great for smooth driving. Almost all the power is delivered in first 1” or so of pedal travel.

By planted, I mean the car seemed to be strongly understeer biased. I couldn’t get it to rotate when entering turn. Maybe high regen would help, but I heard that it overheats the battery.

I think the weight and tire size ratio is the main downside. The lighter weight Civic Si is running 235 width front tires vs. 205 in the Mini SE. Tires smelled like they were cooking after first run.

I would still recommend autocross at least once. It’ll teach you a lot about the way the car behaves. I was just surprised how much contrast there was between driving it at 8/10 vs. 10-11/10. Around the city it’s a lot of fun.
 
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simplex123 said:
Did you look into the Cravenspeed chassis brace?
https://www.cravenspeed.com/the-big-pair-chassis-brace-for-mini-cooper-f56-2014-2021/

I was looking into adding it to mine down the road.
Perhaps that paired with a swaybar could help with the body roll/handling before going into the more expensive suspension mods like a set of coilovers.
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Agreed. The chassis is definitely capable with the relatively low weight, small size, and improved weight distribution. But I think the more I mod it, the more I’ll be dissatisfied with it. Was hoping to just commute for cheap on weekday and have fun with “go kart feel” on weekend in non competitive autocross.
 
simplex123 said:
Did you look into the Cravenspeed chassis brace?
https://www.cravenspeed.com/the-big-pair-chassis-brace-for-mini-cooper-f56-2014-2021/

I was looking into adding it to mine down the road.
Perhaps that paired with a swaybar could help with the body roll/handling before going into the more expensive suspension mods like a set of coilovers.
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I don't think that fits the SE, the battery is already there using those mounting points and is stiffer than those two pieces of aluminum anyway
 
You're right, the entire tunnel is filled with batteries. Not sure if it is more or less stiff as it might just be a plastic cover with waterproof adhessive sprayed over. The two parts of the chassis may not be joined. I'm not sure, I don't have my car yet so I can't get underneath, but this is what I can see from Savagegeese's video:

 
One thing to remember is that the SE has a far more even weight distribution. There is less weight over the front wheels, so you get less turn in. You can change your technique to make use of trail braking which will load the front on turn in. The rear end will be more planted - which is actually not what you always want with autocross, but is an advantage mid corner. I haven't raced MINIs for a long time, but I think it should still be the same ;)
 
vader said:
There is less weight over the front wheels, so you get less turn in.
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The SE is about 300lb heavier, but corner weight wise that all gets added to the rear. The front weights are about the same as an ICE S. (58% of 3100lb vs 65% of 2850lb)

OE tires are like trying to run a 100m race in bunny slippers, I'd be curious to see if the car wakes up with 200tw & alignment. Are the gas car F56 rear swaybars compatible with the SE?
 
Brawndo said:
The SE is about 300lb heavier, but corner weight wise that all gets added to the rear. The front weights are about the same as an ICE S. (58% of 3100lb vs 65% of 2850lb)
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It isn't about the absolute weight, but the percentage. SE may have the same downward force (lower percent x heavier car), however that same force is trying to move a heavier weight. The tyres work harder and will give up earlier. Braking into and partially round the corner (trail braking) transfers more weight to the front, giving more grip. The rear is the opposite - a better percentage/weight means the rear has more grip allowing better mid corner speed.

How do you do park brake turns? When I used to do motorkhana (oz version of autocross), there were lots of garage turns (park brake) and reverse turns (aka movie stunt style reverse fast, flip the wheel, blip the brakes and spin 180 so you are going forwards).

This is where I would think the SE would suffer not having a real park brake.
 
simplex123 said:
You're right, the entire tunnel is filled with batteries. Not sure if it is more or less stiff as it might just be a plastic cover with waterproof adhessive sprayed over. The two parts of the chassis may not be joined. I'm not sure, I don't have my car yet so I can't get underneath, but this is what I can see from Savagegeese's video:
Click to expand...


It's a giant piece of stamped steel, it's supporting the weight of the battery and also needs to be strong enough to prevent road debris from puncturing the batteries

You can see the mounting points along the edges:
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vader said:
One thing to remember is that the SE has a far more even weight distribution. There is less weight over the front wheels, so you get less turn in. You can change your technique to make use of trail braking which will load the front on turn in. The rear end will be more planted - which is actually not what you always want with autocross, but is an advantage mid corner. I haven't raced MINIs for a long time, but I think it should still be the same ;)
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Not an expert, but I think turn in is more alignment than weight distribution? My Miata was pretty much 50/50 and after an alignment change had quick turn in with just a hint of oversteer mid corner. With the stock alignment it would understeer like crazy
 
Carsten Haase said:
Not sure how the P7s compare to the 16" Hankooks mine came with but switching to 215/45R17 BFGoodrich Comp2 A/S tires completely transformed the handling. Steering felt much more precise and there was a heck of a lot less sidewall flex (which can feel a bit like body roll). Ride was definitely more harsh and range took a huge hit but it was worth it for me!

Alignment still needs a change to remove understeer but I haven't gotten around to that yet
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@Carsten Haase do you have pictures of the tires on the car? Are you using OEM wheels?

I've debated getting 215 vs 205 but was leaning towards sticking to 205.
 
JonR said:
@Carsten Haase do you have pictures of the tires on the car? Are you using OEM wheels?

I've debated getting 215 vs 205 but was leaning towards sticking to 205.
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I'm using OZ Superturismo LM wheels (17x7.5 ET50) with 3mm spacers. They technically fit without the spacers but I wasn't totally comfortable with the tire/shock clearance.

@MichaelC has some experience with the same tire in two different widths (I think 205 and 225) and might be able to provide some insight

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JonR said:
I've debated getting 215 vs 205 but was leaning towards sticking to 205.
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Carsten Haase said:
@MichaelC has some experience with the same tire in two different widths (I think 205 and 225) and might be able to provide some insight
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Yes, I have experience with Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on my SE in these configurations:
  • 225/45ZR17 tires on NM Engineering RSe05 wheels (17x7.5 ET40)
  • 205/45ZR17 tires on OEM Roulette Spoke wheels (17x7 ET54) with 12.5mm spacers
The wider contact patch of the RSe05 setup noticeably increased cornering grip (at the cost of some reduced efficiency). Now that I have all-seasons on my stock wheels, my plan is to replace the tires on the RSe05s with efficient high-performance summer tires to see if I can get the best of all worlds (or at least more of them).

Will you notice a handling improvement with 215 vs 205? Maybe; maybe not. If you decide to try it:
  1. Be aware that you will probably need to add spacers, as the stock wheel & tire fitment leaves very little clearance (~3mm?) between the tire's inner face and the front suspension.
  2. Seek out EU tyre labels for the exact spec you plan to buy. The label ratings can vary across sizes, and they can also vary across speed ratings for the same size.
  3. Please report your findings so we can learn from your experience. :cool:
 
Just curious, what is your autocross history, and with what car? I am a very casual autocross-er over the last 4 years, and while I was using a fantastic 2017 m240i usually finished in the bottom quartile of racers in my class with no mods. I had an absolute blast every single time I did it, and have only my meager skills to blame for my performance. The one time I took someone's advice prior to race and had my tire shop alter the camber I did marginally better. Not worth the time and effort, but interesting.

Driving the SE around town and on spirited twisties, I can honestly say the experience is happily on-par with the fun I had in the m240i. Without the noise. I always start off in Sport mode, but initially the couple times I forgot to change it and punched it while in Mid, I was reminded of the shocking torque-steer this thing creates (my last FWD was a 2001 VW Jetta turbo; fun, but not like this!). Sport mode obviously does a great deal to nearly cancel out the torque-steer, and while it probably doesn't give much benefit in actual speed, it makes punching less like a wrestling match with the steering wheel. I can't imagine driving this thing on an Autocross in anything other than Sport, unless you're looking for an arm workout. I coded to start in Sport after the second time I forgot to switch manually, and have never even considered another mode.
 
MichaelC said:
  1. Be aware that you will probably need to add spacers, as the stock wheel & tire fitment leaves very little clearance (~3mm?) between the tire's inner face and the front
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Spacers can be a pain to figure out.

From my experience, 3mm spacers to ~10mm spacers will not work because the bore on the wheels will not end up touching the hub. This would mean the hub is no longer centering the wheel and most likely will result in significant vibrations at speed or other damage.

ECS tuning 10mm MINI specific spacers do work with the stock wheels by matching the taper on the wheel bore but most likely will not work with aftermarket wheels.

3mm spacers do (barely) work with my OZ wheels but do not work with the stock wheels. (OZ wheels have a smaller chamfer on the bore)

12mm and larger can likely use universal spacers as long as they match the bolt pattern and hub size.

You will also need longer wheel bolts to match the size of your spacer (which is a nightmare to find if your aftermarket wheels use ball seats like OZ... )
 
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