Low Estimated Range-- is this normal?

[KentuckyKen]

Sorry to hear you’ve got a bad dealer. Mine read the Battery Capacity Signal for me when I had the first update done and did not charge me anything since I showed them the Service Bulletin 17-093 where it’s supposed to be checked. It’s really the only way to know the health of the HV battery.

 

[vicw]

Having owned my Clarity since January, I was prepared for my projected EV miles to drop with the colder weather, but I'm quite surprised how much it has dropped. Where I was getting 58-62 miles estimated with a full charge during the Summer months, I"m now seeing 38-41 miles estimated and 35-37 miles actual, with temps in the 40-50 range, and much colder weather to come soon. I make a round trip of about 35 miles, 2 or 3 times a week, and I plan any other local driving, I find it necessary, for the first time, to do a daytime charge in addition to the overnight. All of my driving has been local roads, with a max speed of about 45 mph. I use Climate Control, but not the seat heaters.

I don't recall ever having those low ranges in the first couple of months of cold weather right after I bought the car, but I didn't track it as closely back then, until I installed a kWh meter in May. I'm definitely planning to request a readout of the battery capacity when I go in for my first maintenance in early January.

 

[KentuckyKen]

Wirh same temps, I’m also seeing a drop but much less than yours. It’s dropped to mid 50s. Try using seat heater instead of cabin heater and dress like an Eskimo. Seat heater uses less power.

 

[vicw]

Wirh same temps, I’m also seeing a drop but much less than yours. It’s dropped to mid 50s. Try using seat heater instead of cabin heater and dress like an Eskimo. Seat heater uses less power.

Even in the more extreme cold days back in January, I don't ever remember anything like the extreme full charge EV projections dropoff that I'm getting now with temps mostly the 40's - and we've always used Climate Control, so I don't think using that vs. seat heater accounts for it, or at least all of it. As you described, mid- low 50 miles, or at worst high 40's was my expectation with the current cold, but not freezing temps that are currently getting.

I don't plan to be using that as an alternative to cabin heating, anyway, unless it becomes desperate. My real fear is that something has gone awry with battery capacity. If it gets worse, I'll ask the dealer for a check on capacity.

 

[Wdave]

I mean I expected the EV range to be a bit lower than advertised on the tin, But my clarity is telling me 37 miles on a full charge, with me getting closer to 30 actual.
I bought the car about 3 weeks back and it might be the battery learning, or it just might be this car sat on a lot a ton of time.
I'm sort of concerned about it, but I'm fully expecting the Honda service department to blow me off if I even mention it.

 

[insightman]

I mean I expected the EV range to be a bit lower than advertised on the tin, But my clarity is telling me 37 miles on a full charge, with me getting closer to 30 actual.
I bought the car about 3 weeks back and it might be the battery learning, or it just might be this car sat on a lot a ton of time.
I'm sort of concerned about it, but I'm fully expecting the Honda service department to blow me off if I even mention it.

That echoes my experience with the first Clarity delivered in my area last December 2nd (meaning it certainly had a fresh battery). I now pre-heat the car before disconnecting the EVSE, dress in layers, and then go as long as I can before turning on the seat heater or the resistance heater. I admit to having "engine anxiety."

 

[Wdave]

That echoes my experience with the first Clarity delivered in my area last December 2nd (meaning it certainly had a fresh battery). I now pre-heat the car before disconnecting the EVSE, dress in layers, and then go as long as I can before turning on the seat heater or the resistance heater. I admit to having "engine anxiety."

I mean I'm not entirely hating the ICE like I thought I was going to at the beginning. I came from a van doing 10mpg city and having a max range of 200 miles on a 20gallon tank to a car now that is averaging 47 city with a 7 gallon tank a little ICE noise and rumbling isn't going to ruin my day.
Just disappointed in the EV range so far, I have to look on the tin in the morning to see when the car was manufactured.

 

[Clarity_Newbie]

Once again, thanks for all the thoughtful replies. So a little more information as maybe it helps someone reading the thread:
- My garage is kind of under my house but not heated. I told my wife I imagine it to be 50 degrees. She immediately disagreed with me and indicated our garage will even reach freezing if we have many days in a row near freezing. In other words, I'm likely wrong about how warm my unheated garage actually is. So maybe car is getting closer to outside temps overnight than I realize which is presently about 36 degrees outside over-night with maybe daytime high of 50.
- I've started turning climate off completely when not needed. I wasn't doing this before. I find I have to turn back on when I need to defrost front window.
- The roads I drive (Eugene OR) have no highways between me and my normal commute with average speed of 25-40. So none of my driving is at highway speeds -- at least not during the work-week (and as it happens none this weekend).
- On reflection, as I've gotten more comfortable with the car, I am guilty of jack rabbit starts. It's fun with an electric car to have the sensation of being thrown back in your seat with starting from stop. high torque at low speed is nice. i've been consciously working on avoiding this behavior (mostly).
- I started using the climate control in the morning, then try leave it off as I drive (as others have suggested). I'm not going to start dressing like an eskimo though. My luxury car feels ghetto to me if I don't let myself use the heat as need be.

I do envy the clarity owners who have seen 60-70 miles of estimated range. Never going to happen on mine -- maybe the dealer didn't charge mine adequately when it sat on the lot, or ..., who knows. There just isn't that much behavior change mileage to be had in my case. (I mean even if I literally never use climate control at all, and drive gingerly, no heated seats, with the temperature here, I'd be lucky to see 38 miles on range on my car again until Spring.) Full charge is still showing 28 miles even after I have been better about my behavior, and temps are going colder as we go into winter.

The final thought for this post is this: I originally thought I wanted a Hyundai Sonata plugin with 25 mile range. I would of bought one actually could I find one. My Honda Clarity even at worst conditions will likely be 50% stated range which is about what I would of had on the Sonata anyway. So maybe lost in winter is the luxury of only having to charge every two days (now I'll plug in nightly). Also, god forbid, I'll use hybrid mode and burn some gas. It's still way less gas than I was doing. So I'm still getting a lot of value... I will say my expectations have really been reset for winter driving though.

-Dan

PS: I luckily have a need to drive about 20mi a day on a normal day with no special trips. I guess it would be more concerning to me if my one day need was 40 mi. i.e. I appear to be able to get 40mi electric range when its warmer out, but not otherwise.

Dan...no need getting stressed about bad batteries as it could be several things like hardware on the clarity or software issues or a host of other things.

Some folks put 600 miles a month on the clarity versus most folks who put 1500 miles a month on the car so you shouldn't really compare your EV usage with someone else's.

There is a thread which encourages folks to get the battery capacity test for documentation and peace of mind. All owners should get that done when the car is purchased by any ethical dealership...hence no one has come forward to say they got it as part of the PDI.

As an example...my clarity was built in January 2018. It sat on the dealership lot for 93 days, had two bars on the battery and 15 miles on the odo when I bought it. I had to request the battery capacity test and fortunately it turned out a-okay. Even with a good BCT I still have had loss of EV miles in cold weather.

Before dressing like an Eskimo...I would take the car to the dealer and not only have them run a courtesy BCT...but also check for possible hardware issues with your cars charging system.

I am no expert but seems to me you've had the car 6 weeks and something has gone wonky since you said it was getting in the mid 40's then a sudden decline.

If it is the battery, I'm told Honda is such a reputable company they will replace it when it degrades to less than 36 ah or there abouts with no questions asked if within the warranty period. I would expect much sooner if you have a poor BCT result.

Keep us posted and good luck!

 

[Dan Albrich]

Just a quick update. I've been managing my driving and use of climate control. Slow starts and whatnot. I basically run with heated seats off, and climate control off save defrost. I do pre-condition the car when plugged in before I leave. I've gotten the range estimate back up to about 36 miles on full-charge but that seems to be the limit on my clarity. At home I just have a level 1, but it tends to charge over-night and finish charging by 5am because it isn't charging from empty. At 7:20am I have climate control kick on for the commute in. Commute is 5 miles.

 

[Clarity_Newbie]

Just a quick update. I've been managing my driving and use of climate control. Slow starts and whatnot. I basically run with heated seats off, and climate control off save defrost. I do pre-condition the car when plugged in before I leave. I've gotten the range estimate back up to about 36 miles on full-charge but that seems to be the limit on my clarity. At home I just have a level 1, but it tends to charge over-night and finish charging by 5am because it isn't charging from empty. At 7:20am I have climate control kick on for the commute in. Commute is 5 miles.

Dan...I too use the level 1 charger over night. There is no difference in the ability of either a level 1 or level 2 charger to adequately charge the car to full capacity. The only difference is the amount of time it takes to achieve said charge.

Running climate control will reduce EV range since it relies on the battery to precondition. There are several threads about preconditioning while still plugged in on L 1 or 2 charger etc. There are several folks much more versed in this then me so good info can be found in those threads

Good luck!

 

[dnb]

Just a quick update. I've been managing my driving and use of climate control. Slow starts and whatnot. I basically run with heated seats off, and climate control off save defrost. I do pre-condition the car when plugged in before I leave. I've gotten the range estimate back up to about 36 miles on full-charge but that seems to be the limit on my clarity. At home I just have a level 1, but it tends to charge over-night and finish charging by 5am because it isn't charging from empty. At 7:20am I have climate control kick on for the commute in. Commute is 5 miles.

I don't think the pre-conditioning works very well on the level 1 charger... I'm not really seeing it with mine and the new review here



talks about how they weren't able to have the level 1 charger properly cool the vehicle outside in the heat while the level 2 did just fine.

Is there a way to see the cabin temp and not just outside temp? I know the app sometimes shows it, but sometimes it doesn't update properly so has been hard to check. But some mornings the car is cold and sometimes warm even though I have it precondition for 20+ minutes.

But I also have a short commute (7-10 miles) and fairly low estimated range so I'm guessing the car is spending a lot of energy heating during the drive and doesn't have much time to make up the difference through breaking and such since its not city driving but mostly faster roads.

Since the estimated range is based on your previous drives and not generic, I think thats why we see low numbers compared to others who might do a lot of city driving for longer periods of time.

 

[iluvscuba]

Not sure about cooling but now when I PC at home (Level 1) the car temp goes up to 21C (70F) but when I charge at the dealer (Level 2) and PC, the car temp goes to 24/25C (76F). This is based on the temp display from the HL ap

 

[Ken7]

We too are seeing a precipitous drop in range here in NY. We had been getting a range in the mid 50s in the nice weather. Now, with temps in the 40s, we’re only getting about 35-37. This is a bit disappointing and I’m not seeing this same % drop on my Tesla.

 

[Ted Bacon]

Dan,

I was getting the 48-52 mile range showing up until this week. My dealership updated my software and I immediately noticed the drop in range. I'm showing 36-38 mile range after the update. It has been cold here (32-38 degrees) overnight for the past week. Even after the initial temperature change to the 30's I was still getting a charge range of 48 or so miles. Did you have your car serviced and the dealership update software? I'm trying to determine if it is the cold or the software update that changed my range.

I'm suspicious that it was the software update. I saw the same thing change with my gas fuel range. I had a full tank and was showing 324 mile range when I brought it in to the dealership before the update. After the update the range was only 260, still had a full tank. The dealership didn't run the ICE during any of the work they did. Both EV and HV range estimates dropped significantly.

 

[LAF]

I don't think the pre-conditioning works very well on the level 1 charger... I'm not really seeing it with mine and the new review here



talks about how they weren't able to have the level 1 charger properly cool the vehicle outside in the heat while the level 2 did just fine.

Is there a way to see the cabin temp and not just outside temp? I know the app sometimes shows it, but sometimes it doesn't update properly so has been hard to check. But some mornings the car is cold and sometimes warm even though I have it precondition for 20+ minutes.

But I also have a short commute (7-10 miles) and fairly low estimated range so I'm guessing the car is spending a lot of energy heating during the drive and doesn't have much time to make up the difference through breaking and such since its not city driving but mostly faster roads.

Since the estimated range is based on your previous drives and not generic, I think thats why we see low numbers compared to others who might do a lot of city driving for longer periods of time.

I have no problem preconditioning with a level 1 charger as long as it is finished charging and still plugged in. When it starts to heat up it also starts charging again to keep EV range up.

 

[dnb]

I have no problem preconditioning with a level 1 charger as long as it is finished charging and still plugged in. When it starts to heat up it also starts charging again to keep EV range up.

Mine errors about half the time manually starting the pre-conditioning from the app, the schedule seems to work better but sometimes even 20-30 min after it starts the car is still pretty cold. I'll have to do some more testing with it as I usually don't check the app which has the in car temp (is this not available while inside the car itself??)

Today car was @ 45f when starting the pre-conditioning, I'll see how it goes.

Edit: After 30 min car temp was a whole... 59f and pre-conditioning stopped... yeah not so great

Edit2: 20 min later it was at 72f

 

[RickSE]

Having owned my Clarity since January, I was prepared for my projected EV miles to drop with the colder weather, but I'm quite surprised how much it has dropped. Where I was getting 58-62 miles estimated with a full charge during the Summer months, I"m now seeing 38-41 miles estimated and 35-37 miles actual, with temps in the 40-50 range, and much colder weather to come soon. I make a round trip of about 35 miles, 2 or 3 times a week, and I plan any other local driving, I find it necessary, for the first time, to do a daytime charge in addition to the overnight. All of my driving has been local roads, with a max speed of about 45 mph. I use Climate Control, but not the seat heaters.

I don't recall ever having those low ranges in the first couple of months of cold weather right after I bought the car, but I didn't track it as closely back then, until I installed a kWh meter in May. I'm definitely planning to request a readout of the battery capacity when I go in for my first maintenance in early January.

This is almost exactly what I’m seeing right now in Boston. My fully charged battery went from high 40s last month to high 30s now. I think my actual might be a little better than the reported high 30s because instead of 63% to 68% battery left one way into my office I’m at 54% one way over an 18 mile one way commute. This means I can’t do a round trip on one charge any more, but it’s still ok for me.

 

[vicw]

RickSE - EV Performance on our Clarities seems pretty similar. On mine, though, my actual battery miles per charge has been lower than predicted by the full charge. I've kept my screen set to monitor EV Range & the A Trip mileage, which is set to report miles since the last charge.

I watch that as I drive, and have observed that the the longer I drive in a cycle, the more the sum of those numbers decreases below the predicted EV.

Here is a short list of my recent cycles, taken at the start and end of the day, prior to recharge:

11/8 50 miles predicted vs 45.4 actual
11/9 46 vs 40.7
11/10 42 vs 37
11/13 41 vs 39.7
11/14 39 vs 35
11/15 38 vs 35.6

The predicted EV is not hugely overstated, but consistently low for me. Looks like about 10% or so.

 

[Jaketesla]

Last winter I was getting a range of 50 to 55km compared to the summer range of 80 to 85km. While these are actual ranges the indicated EV range was usually about 10km more.
One day I left with a full charge and drove a 60km round trip at about -5C. The ICE came on at the 52km point while using climate control. The next day the weather and temperature were identical so I did the same drive but turned off the heat at the half way point (30km). I managed the full 60km without using any gas. That's a difference of 8km by not heating. I did use the seat heaters because I believe that they are powered by the 12 volt battery and don't have a huge effect on range.
Cold weather is a triple threat for EV's:
1. HV batteries are not as efficient
2. Cabin heaters use lots of power
3. Cold air is more dense and affects aerodynamics

 

[insightman]

Based on the fuse box assignments, I always assumed all accessories (including the A/C, heater, and seat heaters) are powered by the 12-volt battery. That battery is then recharged by the DC-to-DC converter from the HV battery whenever the Clarity is ON. Am I wrong and there actually are fused accessories powered directly by the HV battery?