Love to buy an EV but...

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As a Kona owner, I acknowledge that the car, like all cars, has advantages and disadvantages -- though in my personal experience over a year the advantages have much outweighed the downsides. Still, it's not for everyone, and if you have a large family or the recalls worry you, a Kona may not be for you. But I must take issue with "$42K for a Hyundai? Really?" Inside, the car feels way more upscale than you'd expect from a "cheap" brand (vastly more upscale than the Bolt, for example), the seats are really good and there's lots of safety tech. If it works for you in other ways, the Kona is an excellent value if you can get over the name on the badge.
 
The biggest advantage the Bolt has over the Kona, is that it is cheap, very cheap actually. But you get what you pay for...
 
R P said:
or Tesla (my son has had ton of problems with his M3)
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In contrast, my 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 has been all but perfect. In fact, the HW 2.5 was replaced free of charge with HW 3.0 to support AutoPilot and Full Self Driving. In fact, AutoPilot prevent several potential accidents in the first three months when an unexpected medical incident occurred.

So on one side, we have a 3d party claiming problems of someone else with a Tesla M3. In contrast, I own a 2019 Std Rng Plus Model 3 with 38,127 miles and no problems. In fact, the car is better than when I bought it: (1) peak charge rate up to 170 kW vs original 100 kW, and; (2) software updates running about every two months. I've seen continuous improvement without having to take the car to dealer except for the free, control computer upgrade.

In contrast, Konas are reported to be perfection. Just my Tesla has demonstrated and remains perfectible over my ownership. Even today's SuperCharger network is better than the 2019 version when I bought the Tesla.

Bob Wilson
 
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Well, Mr. Wilson, if you would note, the OP is from BC where I live, and where we have a lot of free BC Hydro chargers. The M3 does not support charging on CCS, and SuperChargers are not free here. My son and I just completed a 1600 km round trip (to Ainsworth) last week. My son, with his M3 had to charge in Princeton at the Supercharger (and pay), while my complete trip was free using the BC Hydro fast chargers. Furthermore, the Superchargers tend to be only on the main routes, and there are parts of BC (eg up north) where they are missing, and only BC Hydro fast chargers are available.

So the Tesla Supercharger network may work for you, but it is not the best where I live (and the OP) here in BC. Furthermore, your Standard Range Plus M3 is way down the list when it comes to range. Look again.
https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-range-tested/

The Kona is far from perfect, but not hard to beat the Tesla M3 is so many ways.
 
R P said:
Well, Mr. Wilson, if you would note, the OP is from BC where I live, and where we have a lot of free BC Hydro chargers. The M3 does not support charging on CCS, and SuperChargers are not free here.
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Then we have different fast charging networks. In my area, North Alabama, both Superchargers and CCS-1 chargers are fee based. There is a free (but broken for a year) CCS-1 charger in Huntsville that requires $0.25/30 minutes parking meter fee.

R P said:
My son and I just completed a 1600 km round trip (to Ainsworth) last week. My son, with his M3 had to charge in Princeton at the Supercharger (and pay), while my complete trip was free using the BC Hydro fast chargers. Furthermore, the Superchargers tend to be only on the main routes, and there are parts of BC (eg up north) where they are missing, and only BC Hydro fast chargers are available.
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And you point out an important requirement to buying an EV ... What is the fast DC charging network?

In my case, I had experience with multiple CCS-1 charging networks with our 2014 BMW i3-REx and found in 2016:
  • Electrify America - both unreliable and expensive at $24 for EV versus $6 in premium gasoline over the same 120 mile trip between Huntsville and Knoxville. As for L2 chargers, even worse.
R P said:
So the Tesla Supercharger network may work for you, but it is not the best where I live (and the OP) here in BC. Furthermore, your Standard Range Plus M3 is way down the list when it comes to range. Look again.
https://insideevs.com/news/407807/eletric-car-real-world-range-tested/
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The block-to-block, daily range is a product of the charge rate and fast DC charger density. A shorter range EV with a high-speed charge rate with dense, fast DC charger network(s) works perfectly fine. Any buyer needs to do a requirements analysis including modeling the vehicle and fast DC charging network.
R P said:
The Kona is far from perfect, but not hard to beat the Tesla M3 is so many ways.
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It is not just the EV as the combination of fast DC charging network and likely routes is key.

Let me suggest that 'flogging' your son's EV decision is a poor way to advocate your choice. Switch to objective discussion of facts and data, and we'll be on the same page.

There are cases where a non-Tesla EV makes sense based upon a requirements analysis. Just 'one size fits all' reminds me of four years in the US Marine Corps ... not a happy time.

Bob Wilson

ps. Leave your angst against your son's decision out of our discussions. Feel free to invite him here to discuss his Tesla problems. We might be able to offer useful suggestions that you might not understand, much less accurately pass on.
 
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Calliope said:
They do make adapters to charge a Tesla from a CCS or ChaDEmo unit (in addition to J1772 adapters). It's dramatically increased the usefulness of the Tesla cars, in my opinion.
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One of the local EVgo stations now has a Tesla connector. So no adapter is necessary at this station.

More upgrades are planned for the other EVgo stations and I suspect other outfits will follow.
 
Calliope said:
In this specific case, the poster is talking about British Columbia, which has a rather robust system of provincially sponsored DCFC stations.
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I know the border is closed currently, but Canadians do come to the states frequently. Secondly, EVgo won't be the only ones adding a Tesla connector in the future. Heck even BC Hydo might upgrade in the future.
 
bwilson4web said:
I would suggest also looking at the Std Rng Plus Model 3 versus the Superchargers over likely routes.

Bob Wilson
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Definitely.
Have spent many enjoyable hours with ABRP (a better route planner) running simulations with different vehicles, routes, battery degradation, winter vs summer, etc.

But without a condo charge spot, extra trips to a fast charger (especially at -20C) would be required with the SR+ and similar bevs.

As Calliope says, you pay with either time or money. We'll see ...
 
Calliope said:
They do make adapters to charge a Tesla from a CCS or ChaDEmo unit (in addition to J1772 adapters). It's dramatically increased the usefulness of the Tesla cars, in my opinion.
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Yes, my son has an adapter for the Chademo. Cost him $600!! He doesn't expect to get his money back in savings with the free chargers, but he needed it because in some locations off the beaten track, there are no Superchargers, just the BC fast chargers. However, all the fast chargers don't have Chademo, and just CCS. So the fast charging network in BC definitely does not favor Teslas.
 
bwilson4web said:
Let me suggest that 'flogging' your son's EV decision is a poor way to advocate your choice. Switch to objective discussion of facts and data, and we'll be on the same page.

There are cases where a non-Tesla EV makes sense based upon a requirements analysis. Just 'one size fits all' reminds me of four years in the US Marine Corps ... not a happy time.

Bob Wilson

ps. Leave your angst against your son's decision out of our discussions. Feel free to invite him here to discuss his Tesla problems. We might be able to offer useful suggestions that you might not understand, much less accurately pass on.
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Bob, you're the one that keeps flogging your M3. I just sometimes point out the fallacies in your argument in context, like fast chargers in BC, range, etc. I don't want readers to be misled by your one sided fanboi discussions.

As for my son, and his Tesla issues, he doesn't need any help from you, he knows what they are (gets his info from the real Tesla forums) and is dealing with them. He is long out of warranty now, and is just living with them for now.

And Bob, if you ever followed me on the Kona portion of the forum, you will know that I had issues (motor and reduction drive) with my Kona, too, besides the battery. I was not very happy with it either for a while. But happily, they were fixed. My local dealer is very good and no issues with that. And when the battery replacement came out, I then became a fan again of Hyundai and my Kona. So I call as I see it. At this point in time, the Kona has turned out very well for me, so yeah, I will flog it, in context. And you can flog your M3 as well. But if I catch you misleading people, I may call you out.
 
The OP is back. Thanks everyone for your inputs! This is a very active thread and I haven't even mentioned religion or politics yet :)

Rewinding a bit: is there doubt that Chevy will recall and replace its LG batteries in the Bolt in Canada?

And I agree that the Kona feels higher quality than the Bolt. Between the two I think the Kona is the better vehicle and better suited to me, but a used Bolt is better value. So my decision is new Kona (or similar) versus used Bolt. I would consider the Bolt more a temporary purchase to use while EVs continue to improve over the next 5-ish years, while the Kona is a buy and hold car. That is, unless someone can convince me there is a better/cheaper temporary solution than the Bolt.

FYI - the free charging in BC is great... for now. I have heard from someone who ought to know that in a year or so they will be charging $18/hr for DCFC. Not the biggest decision factor, but it does give the Kona an advantage over the Bolt because the Kona charges faster in winter.

In case you are wondering I am still not interested in a Tesla. Sorry, I guess that is kind of like mentioning religion.
 
Yes, the free BC Hydro chargers may come to an end, soon. But there are still others that will be free, mostly L2s. And we may get a break on our home hydro costs, if we own an EV.

No doubt, for just pure value, if you don't care about some of the other driver assist features, like ACC, the Bolt will be your best buy (and lots of range), esp if you can find a used one. And who knows, I would not be surprised if GM decides to replace their batteries, too. They may cave due to public/customer pressure. And they have a reputation to protect as well, with all their new EVs coming out.

I would also look for used Konas, too. There might be some around by now, too, esp with all the negative battery press recently.
 
OP: Have you sat in and driven the two: Kona and Bolt?
We preferred the Bolt but it's a highly personal decision.

However if I had to choose between the two right now, the Kona's better winter range would be a major factor, in Ontario that is, dunno about the wet coast.
 
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I have driven both the Bolt and Kona. Kona's seats are better, but the Bolt has more room. I have taken a bolt on a 4 hour trip and the seats weren't too bad for my torso. So I would be happy with either.

I did some checking on Kia Niro and Soul. Unfortunately to get the wintertime essentials like heat pump, battery warmer, and even heated seats you need the top model which prices those cars much higher than the Kona preferred. It does get cold in the East Kootenays where I live.

Good to hear that BC Hydro will give us a break! FYI - I am not really into features. I loved my 1989 civic si that I restored. Crank up windows, manual steering, 3 pedals, not even a radio. Just sold it to a collector.
 
C02less said:
I have driven both the Bolt and Kona. Kona's seats are better, but the Bolt has more room. I have taken a bolt on a 4 hour trip and the seats weren't too bad for my torso. So I would be happy with either.

I did some checking on Kia Niro and Soul. Unfortunately to get the wintertime essentials like heat pump, battery warmer, and even heated seats you need the top model which prices those cars much higher than the Kona preferred. It does get cold in the East Kootenays where I live.

Good to hear that BC Hydro will give us a break! FYI - I am not really into features. I loved my 1989 civic si that I restored. Crank up windows, manual steering, 3 pedals, not even a radio. Just sold it to a collector.
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I gotta agree with you on the Kia Niro heated seats and steering wheel only being available on the higher priced models. I have a bit of Reynoud's syndrome and although I am a Canuck who actually loves the cold as I get older it has gotten worse and the heated steering wheel standard in the Leaf helps enormously. Heated steering wheels and seats are dirt cheap and shouldn't require you to move to a much more expensive trim level. They are a neccessity in EVs to reduce winter range loss by reducing the amount you need to use cabin heaters. They should be standard equipment even on base models.
 
I did some googling to answer my own question and I have doubts that GM will replace 2017-2019 Bolt batteries in Canada. Bolts are about as likely to burn as any ICE car according to one source. I think the likelihood of a battery replacement is still much greater than the likelihood of a battery fire. So not a terrible risk.
 
R P said:
The biggest advantage the Bolt has over the Kona, is that it is cheap, very cheap actually. But you get what you pay for...
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This is true, the Bolt is by far the best value in EV’s. While I agree that the Kona is the better vehicle the Bolt does have some unique differences and advantages. The Bolt has a larger infotainment screen, roomier back seats, a completely flat floor and heated seats in front and back. The Bolt also has a smaller footprint, an advantage for me not for others in certain cases.

I just railed off a bunch differences in favor of the Bolt, I could make a longer list of advantages for the Kona.
 
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