Kona is Good but...

[Tim94549]

Nice write-up Randall. I agree with a lot of what you said. I did major comparisons to the Tesla 3 before my purchase of the ULTIMATE. My in-law has a TESLA S and had been "pushing us" towards the model 3. The features for the price in the ULTIMATE were hands-down a better deal. And frankly, I hate the DASH BOARD of the TESLA 3. Requiring to constantly be looking at the the center Screen is so distracting, IMHO. And I love the HUD ! I charge the car usually about 1 time per month - so log hauls and charging stations aren't a necessity for us. We also have a TOYOTA SUV for hauling stuff & longer trips. One thing you wrote though puzzled me - you mentioned "FRONT WHEEL DRIVE". Pretty sure the 2020 KONA is REAR WHEEL drive???? or maybe I misread that.

 

[Clamps]

But, the Kona EV is a great daily driver! It sits higher than a Mod 3, handles and feels much like a "hot hatch" when driven with gusto, and with a bit of practice, acceleration is superior to anything that doesn't have electric motor(s) installed! The Kona EV comes fully equipped for it's asking price, not stripped with the very first option adding another $10K to the tab, then more for paint color, interior color, and another huge bite for the dubious privilege of autonomous driving - someday.

Agree that it takes practice as the motor isn't "tuned" properly to manage the torque and power applied to the wheels. Matter of fact with that deficit the Kona actually suffers in a drag race. In regards to cost depends what you mean, in the US market there are three levels of Kona trims available that range form $37-46k. If you want a loaded out version you will pay close to $10k more.

A Model 3 optioned up a bit runs solidly in the mid-$50K to over $60K range. An SEL Kona EV is a good $20K less! My Limited was a bit over $42K which looks to be close to the listed price of a stripped Mod 3 at $39,900 but we all know that car doesn't exist...and if you can get one it's only 240 miles of range, though I think they finally made 310 the basic package.

I think it may have quite some time since you looked at Model 3 availability and pricing. The entry Model 3, the Standard Range Plus MSRP is $37,990 and you can order it off the site just like any other Tesla. A long range AWD is $46,990, there are a few options such as paint color and interior but they don't really impact the features of the car, you are still under $50k for a full feature set minus FSD. And sure, you can order a performance version for $5k more but it doesn't offer any features other than performance, the entry level is 0-60 in 5.4 seconds so decide for yourself how much faster you need to be.

I still think the Kona is a better value, especially with the Fed tax credit but it's not night and day better objectively speaking.

 

[Esprit1st]

Pretty sure the 2020 KONA is REAR WHEEL drive???? or maybe I misread that.

Nope, front wheel drive.

 

[DelRider]

I think it may have quite some time since you looked at Model 3 availability and pricing. ...[snip] especially with the Fed tax credit but it's not night and day better objectively speaking.

Also, whenever comparing to Tesla one really need to factor in access to their Super charger network. A piece of the money being paid for the car is going to build out a really impressive charging infrastructure to help keep the car going. Sure, most of us get along just fine otherwise, but buying into Tesla is like buying into a whole ecosystem rather than just the car itself. I love my Kona and don't think that I have settled in the least. But give Tesla their due, they are making things happen.

 

[cmwade77]

Honestly, one of my primary reasons for an EV is cheaper operating costs. I just bought my Kona (used) yesterday, but I did look at the Tesla Model 3 and saw several issues:

1. I calculated out the cost compared to gas and in a Tesla it is an equivalent of about $2.64 per gallon while in the Kona, it is an equivalent of about $1.25 per gallon. NOTE: This is based on using Superchargers and DC Quick Chargers in my area and based on plans I can get, it may be different for you.
2. Even the Tesla Model 3 is about double what I paid
3. You can't charge the Tesla as a DC Quick charger (and there is now a lot more of them than superchargers around me) without a special adapter
4. This one isn't cost related, but honestly Teslas just feel pretentious.

 

[cmwade77]

Also, whenever comparing to Tesla one really need to factor in access to their Super charger network. A piece of the money being paid for the car is going to build out a really impressive charging infrastructure to help keep the car going. Sure, most of us get along just fine otherwise, but buying into Tesla is like buying into a whole ecosystem rather than just the car itself. I love my Kona and don't think that I have settled in the least. But give Tesla their due, they are making things happen.

They are indeed, but honestly the network of DC Quick chargers is now larger than the supercharger network. Yes these have different providers, but they are usable.

 

[wizziwig]

It's not just about the number of chargers. It's about the number of functional chargers. The public charging network has poor reliability. Try actually taking a long trip requiring multiple charging stops and you'll see for yourself. There is also a large difference in charging speeds.

I assume you're not planning on using Electrify America due to their high per-minute costs? I don't know how you arrived at a lower charging cost than Tesla's SC unless you're factoring in very high charging losses.

 

[CharlyM]

It's not just about the number of chargers. It's about the number of functional chargers. The public charging network has poor reliability. Try actually taking a long trip requiring multiple charging stops and you'll see for yourself. There is also a large difference in charging speeds.

I assume you're not planning on using Electrify America due to their high per-minute costs? I don't know how you arrived at a lower charging cost than Tesla's SC unless you're factoring in very high charging losses.

You'll want to sign up for the Kona plan, it works out at ~0.28-0.35$ per kw.

 

[cmwade77]

It's not just about the number of chargers. It's about the number of functional chargers. The public charging network has poor reliability. Try actually taking a long trip requiring multiple charging stops and you'll see for yourself. There is also a large difference in charging speeds.

I assume you're not planning on using Electrify America due to their high per-minute costs? I don't know how you arrived at a lower charging cost than Tesla's SC unless you're factoring in very high charging losses.

Actually, I am getting EvGo's COVID rate of $0.19/minute in my area with up to 150KW chargers and how did I come up with it? Well it is simple, I took the reported cost to charge at a Tesla Supercharge and divided by the number of miles that should get you. I calculated the same for the Kona based off numbers.

As for Electrify America, I signed up for the Hyundai plan, which is a bit higher than the EvGo plan, but still reasonable.

And long road trip, well in my Nissan Leaf I had done several 400+mile road trips and only had a couple of chargers not work (aside from the Blink network, I think I got their charger working once) and aside from the mentioned Blink charger, I only had one time that the applicable support couldn't help me and luckily the other charger freed up just as I was getting off the phone with support.

So, honestly, I am not sure where you are, but in my experience, avoid Blink chargers at all costs (of course they are also extremely expensive) and there shouldn't be much of an issue. Of course, I am also lucky enough to have a Honda Dealership near my work that provides a 50KW quick charger for free for anyone that wants to use it, you do not need to be a customer of theirs or even drive a Honda, so that lowers my costs considerably as well.

 

[electriceddy]

Actually, I am getting EvGo's COVID rate of $0.19/minute in my area with up to 150KW chargers and how did I come up with it? Well it is simple, I took the reported cost to charge at a Tesla Supercharge and divided by the number of miles that should get you. I calculated the same for the Kona based off numbers.

As for Electrify America, I signed up for the Hyundai plan, which is a bit higher than the EvGo plan, but still reasonable.

And long road trip, well in my Nissan Leaf I had done several 400+mile road trips and only had a couple of chargers not work (aside from the Blink network, I think I got their charger working once) and aside from the mentioned Blink charger, I only had one time that the applicable support couldn't help me and luckily the other charger freed up just as I was getting off the phone with support.

So, honestly, I am not sure where you are, but in my experience, avoid Blink chargers at all costs (of course they are also extremely expensive) and there shouldn't be much of an issue. Of course, I am also lucky enough to have a Honda Dealership near my work that provides a 50KW quick charger for free for anyone that wants to use it, you do not need to be a customer of theirs or even drive a Honda, so that lowers my costs considerably as well.

Might as well, a legacy left by Clarity.
Honda e not in immediate future in N.A. but future models may be considered:
https://carbuzz.com/news/there-s-good-news-for-american-honda-e-prototype-fans

 

[wizziwig]

@cmwade77, sounds like Kona is a good fit for your charging situation. My experience with public chargers has not been as successful. Many times had to change stalls or find another location (broken chargers or all occupied). EA costs will be very unpredictable because the car's charging speeds will vary by battery temperature and SOC and you're paying per minute. In my area almost all the EVGo chargers are 50 kW but much cheaper even with the discount plans.

When comparing to Tesla SC, be sure to include charging losses. They are VERY high on their network due to all the battery conditioning performed to get those high charging speeds. 10%+ losses are not unusual and Tesla now charges for that lost power. Not sure if you can turn off the battery conditioning. It's something nobody talks about and makes the math more difficult for these types of comparisons. At least they charge per kW so more predictable.

 

[cmwade77]

@cmwade77, sounds like Kona is a good fit for your charging situation. My experience with public chargers has not been as successful. Many times had to change stalls or find another location (broken chargers or all occupied). EA costs will be very unpredictable because the car's charging speeds will vary by battery temperature and SOC and you're paying per minute. In my area almost all the EVGo chargers are 50 kW but much cheaper even with the discount plans.

When comparing to Tesla SC, be sure to include charging losses. They are VERY high on their network due to all the battery conditioning performed to get those high charging speeds. 10%+ losses are not unusual and Tesla now charges for that lost power. Not sure if you can turn off the battery conditioning. It's something nobody talks about and makes the math more difficult for these types of comparisons. At least they charge per kW so more predictable.

Yeah, I am doing the math on all of them and simply trying to see who comes out the cheapest. Of course my EA charge yesterday was free because of an issue earlier in the day, so I know the costs at the 75+/-KW on the EA network, but didn't cost me a penny to get to 80%, right now I am at a level 2 charger going up to 100% for free, from about 80% to 100% says it will take about 2.5 hours on this level 2 charger at 5.6kw. Not the fastest free ones in my area, but the faster ones were already taken.

Next time I am low, I will use EvGo and compare, of course right now I have EvGo at $0.19 per minute.

 

[wizziwig]

Maybe this will be useful to someone reading this thread. He also owns a Tesla Model 3 and makes some comparisons.

 

[wcp1961]

Kona v Tesla? One word - TECH.... Tesla has a way better tech package. It’s not Hyundai’s sweet spot. But is it worth a $10k difference... no. My Hyundai dealer is 10 min away, my EV is awesome, best range and quality in this price .... but the tech does give me a little Tesla envy sometimes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jimct]

Maybe this will be useful to someone reading this thread. He also owns a Tesla Model 3 and makes some comparisons.

Thanks for posting the video. One thing puzzling me is about 5 minutes into it, he bemoans the lack of an iphone app for the Kona where he can check the mileage or control the heat or AC. He also finds the difficulty in checking the battery charge percentage to be particularly annoying. Do they not have Bluelink in Britain? Also who cares about percentage when the biggest number on the car display is miles remaining. I'm no math wiz but comparing miles left with miles driven gives a pretty easy percentage estimate.

 

[ericy]

Thanks for posting the video. One thing puzzling me is about 5 minutes into it, he bemoans the lack of an iphone app for the Kona where he can check the mileage or control the heat or AC. He also finds the difficulty in checking the battery charge percentage to be particularly annoying. Do they not have Bluelink in Britain? Also who cares about percentage when the biggest number on the car display is miles remaining. I'm no math wiz but comparing miles left with miles driven gives a pretty easy percentage estimate.

In the UK, the 2019 came with WiFi, but not a cellular connection. Without the cellular, you apparently can't do BlueLink.

 

[Clamps]

I know you can display battery percentage in the center screen but it does bug me that I can’t see a simple percentage display in the drivers cluster. I believe the Bolt is the same. My Smart car showed percentage and miles remaining and I found it very useful/helpful.

 

[cmwade77]

Kona v Tesla? One word - TECH.... Tesla has a way better tech package. It’s not Hyundai’s sweet spot. But is it worth a $10k difference... no. My Hyundai dealer is 10 min away, my EV is awesome, best range and quality in this price .... but the tech does give me a little Tesla envy sometimes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Huh? Ok, Tesla has Autopilot, but that is something I really wouldn't use, I don't trust cars to drive themselves like that. Even the lane keep assist feature on the Kona is pushing it for me.

But aside from that, what tech features does a Tesla have that the Kona doesn't?

 

[Ronny]

Huh? Ok, Tesla has Autopilot, but that is something I really wouldn't use, I don't trust cars to drive themselves like that. Even the lane keep assist feature on the Kona is pushing it for me.

But aside from that, what tech features does a Tesla have that the Kona doesn't?

Over the air updates is a big one for me. Having to bring the Kona to a dealer for a software update is a waste of time!

 

[cmwade77]

Over the air updates is a big one for me. Having to bring the Kona to a dealer for a software update is a waste of time!

Except Tesla will disable features via OTA updates, so at least this way you can simply not take it in.