The title question is open to endless debate.
The questions in the original post contain all the information necessary to provide an answer. The Clarity PHEV will be the more efficient vehicle.
Is the Clarity ideal for 80 miles round trip commute?
- Thread starter JPham
- Start date
- Replies 54
- Views 8K
The title question is open to endless debate.
The questions in the original post contain all the information necessary to provide an answer. The Clarity PHEV will be the more efficient vehicle.
I disagree, it is going to vary wildly for people across the nation.
Assumptions
80 mile commute
0.11585 per kWh electrical rate
2.40 per gallon gasoline cost
Cost per commute
Honda Clarity $3.33 (electricity $1.62 + gas $1.71)
Honda Insight $3.69 (1.53 gallons of gas)
If gas were to drop another 25 cents per gallon, OP would be losing money driving the Clarity over the Insight. Of course, not taking into account any purchasing, charging infrastructure or maintenance costs. If his electrical costs were higher than mine, same scenario.
Everybody’s situation is different. No blank statements can be made without more info.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
No it does not. I agree with @Mike95465
This is the original post.
What in OP's mind constitutes "ideal"? What is OP's definition of "efficient"? If it is purely based on operating costs, then we need his electricity costs? Or someone who lives in the bay area can use their costs as a proxy and answer the question. But that information is not the OP.
*cough cough* i3 REx *cough cough*
I know what you mean, an old Leaf is one of the best cheap commuting EVs available. Just playing DA.
Last edited:
Well then, let’s press the OP for more info.
We do know the car will be operated in the Bay Area of CA, so the price of gas in Peoria is irrelevant to this particular situation. Electricity rates are an unknown at this point.
The Clarity offers the option of gas, electric or gas/electric. Which ever is most efficient, cost wise, can be used to the fullest. If gas prices drop significantly, gas can be used. If gas prices rise, electricity can be used. We have little control over the cost of either. We have options with the Clarity.
A Clarity using gas in HV mode at 42mpg will use 50 more gallons per 20,000 miles than an Accord Hybrid at 47mpg. That’s $100 or so if gas hits $2/gal. Currently in CA regular gas is ~$3-3.25/gal. Should gas hit $2/gal a BEV might fall into the poor choice category.
Oops, almost forgot, the OP never mentioned a BEV as an option.
A Clarity purchased in CA also qualifies for Federal and state incentives, and in some areas, additional incentives from Power Companies. And carpool stickers. There are many reasons to consider the Clarity PHEV a “better, more efficient, ideal” vehicle compared to an Accord Hybrid.
We do know the car will be operated in the Bay Area of CA, so the price of gas in Peoria is irrelevant to this particular situation. Electricity rates are an unknown at this point.
The Clarity offers the option of gas, electric or gas/electric. Which ever is most efficient, cost wise, can be used to the fullest. If gas prices drop significantly, gas can be used. If gas prices rise, electricity can be used. We have little control over the cost of either. We have options with the Clarity.
A Clarity using gas in HV mode at 42mpg will use 50 more gallons per 20,000 miles than an Accord Hybrid at 47mpg. That’s $100 or so if gas hits $2/gal. Currently in CA regular gas is ~$3-3.25/gal. Should gas hit $2/gal a BEV might fall into the poor choice category.
Oops, almost forgot, the OP never mentioned a BEV as an option.
A Clarity purchased in CA also qualifies for Federal and state incentives, and in some areas, additional incentives from Power Companies. And carpool stickers. There are many reasons to consider the Clarity PHEV a “better, more efficient, ideal” vehicle compared to an Accord Hybrid.
Last edited:
interestedinEV
Well-Known Member
No he/she did not. Neither did OP ever mention a Accord. And by your reasoning the Toyota Prius Prime will also meet the requirements (and the OP never mentioned that either).
Funny thing, here we are debating what the OP should or should not do and the OP has not responded after two posts.
HagerHedgie,
Quality Lithium battery manufacturers such as Battle Born have tested their batteries and state that after 3000-5000 or more charge cycles they will retain 75-80% of their original capacity. One factor, to achieve those results, is a charge rate of 0.5C or less. The maximum charge rate on the Clarity is ~0.4C.
Honda uses Panasonic cells in their batteries, which I would consider a high quality product. The BMS controls the SOC to between ~15-90%. We won’t hurt the batteries using a Level 2 charger.
A rapid discharge could be more likely to shorten the useful life of the battery. For instance, a sustained speed of 80mph in EV mode would consume all of the useable battery capacity in 30 minutes or less. That would be a discharge rate of 2.0C or higher. Realistically we may only see 25-30 miles of range at those speeds, which would be closer to 3.0C.
Lithium batteries can provide 100% of rated capacity at a discharge rate of 1.0C. Capacity diminishes as C-Rate increases. They can also be discharged at rates above 1.0C, but it may reduce longevity.
Quality Lithium battery manufacturers such as Battle Born have tested their batteries and state that after 3000-5000 or more charge cycles they will retain 75-80% of their original capacity. One factor, to achieve those results, is a charge rate of 0.5C or less. The maximum charge rate on the Clarity is ~0.4C.
Honda uses Panasonic cells in their batteries, which I would consider a high quality product. The BMS controls the SOC to between ~15-90%. We won’t hurt the batteries using a Level 2 charger.
A rapid discharge could be more likely to shorten the useful life of the battery. For instance, a sustained speed of 80mph in EV mode would consume all of the useable battery capacity in 30 minutes or less. That would be a discharge rate of 2.0C or higher. Realistically we may only see 25-30 miles of range at those speeds, which would be closer to 3.0C.
Lithium batteries can provide 100% of rated capacity at a discharge rate of 1.0C. Capacity diminishes as C-Rate increases. They can also be discharged at rates above 1.0C, but it may reduce longevity.
You are correct, the OP never mentioned an Accord. My reasoning was an attempt to show some advantages of the Clarity, which was mentioned, over a regular hybrid.
The comparison to an Accord Hybrid was chosen as it is a very similar vehicle to the Clarity. More so than a Prius of any sort.
Perhaps they are considering hybrids from other manufacturers. We may never know.
Mechanically? Perhaps. Practically? Not at all.
Mowcowbell
Well-Known Member
I'd be rethinking my employment and housing decisions if I had to consider an 80 mile round trip commute in heavy traffic.
Both are mid-size, mid-level 4-door sedans that mysterious produce 212hp. One gets 47-48mpg, the other 40-44mpg. With incentives on the Clarity, they are similarly priced.
Someone trying to decide between a Hybrid and a PHEV might consider these 2 vehicles. We actually went looking for a Hybrid and ended up with the PHEV.
You live in Michigan, right?
Pardon, what I meant to say was that the Prius Prime is closer to the Clarity than the Accord Hybrid in terms of efficiency for an 80 mile round trip (OP specifically mentions efficiency as the primary matter of concern, not the class/size of the vehicle). I'd argue that, in the case of offering a traditional HEV alternative to the Clarity, the Insight would more closely compare than the Accord Hybrid given OP's vague criteria.
The Prius Prime is a PHEV, not a traditional HEV. The OP asked about the difference in efficiency between a PHEV in HV mode, specifically a Clarity, and a regular hybrid. They did not ask for a comparison between PHEV’s.
As previously stated, I offered a single comparison between the Clarity PHEV and a traditional hybrid that I believe falls into a similar class/size and driving experience for a potential buyer. Any number of comparisons could be made. I chose one that I felt was appropriate to the OP’s questions.
Last edited: