Is Clarity a dangerous vehicle to own?

[ClarityBill]

Yes. The dealer left the traction battery dead (as in completely dead, not even the usual two bar safety). I was on a 50 mph road, and the accelerator just stopped working. The car slowed down to 30 even with it floored, so I pulled into a business parking lot and turned it off and back on and it seemed fine again. Got home and haven't had it happen again since (though I've never let the battery die again, either). Dealers really need to be less stupid about killing the cars before they sell them. They transferred it from another dealer (90 miles odometer when I got it), and I'm assuming it was driven HV with whatever gas was left in the tank then EV until it died and had to be towed the rest of the way. Of course they proudly told me about the full tank of gas they put in it before I left their garage.

Wow! Thanks for the real world story.

Seems like Honda should have lit up the dashboard with warnings before that happened: I just had the low fuel warning again yesterday, but they don't have a - 'I'm gonna die warning?' Or they could tell us (you) what was happening - 'Battery charge too low to operate'

 

[Landshark]

I don't know if there was a lack of power or not (likely not, because I had a good deal of charge), but my knee-jerk reaction was to immediately disengage and re-engage HV mode to reset the setpoint.

Your experience could certainly be perceived as a “loss of power”. Increasing RPM’s is generally associated with acceleration. On the Clarity it seems like the clutch is slipping. Even though the car may be maintaining a set speed, or even accelerating, to the uninitiated it feels like something has gone horribly wrong.

This is the nature of a vehicle that is propelled, in part, or in whole (with completely depleted batteries) by electricity from an inverter generator. It appears that in the latter case, that the car will actually lose power and slow down. In the former case, it just makes more noise.

 

[Landshark]

Seems like Honda should have lit up the dashboard with warnings before that happened: I just had the low fuel warning again yesterday, but they don't have a - 'I'm gonna die warning?' Or they could tell us (you) what was happening - 'Battery charge too low to operate'

It’s entirely possible that there were dashboard warnings or audible alarms as the battery was being discharged below normal operating levels and the person delivering the vehicle ignored them or just kept pressing buttons until the car finally ran out of gasoline and electricity.

The car can cover 90 miles on a full charge and a gallon of gas. Perhaps the dealer was under the impression that the car was powered by ignorance. If only that were possible.

Petteyg359 has thus far made no mention of warnings or alarms while driving with depleted batteries. Maybe the car realized it was futile to provide useful information to the driver after being repeatedly ignored during the calamitous delivery process.

 

[petteyg359]

As you said earlier, you were on a 50mph road, presumably going more than 30mph, when the car “slowed” to 30mph. Later you described a 0-55mph acceleration while expressing concern for the intolerance of the motorists behind you.

Surely you've driven on state highways before? These roads (50+ mph with intersections and traffic lights) exist all over the place. It's not a local anomaly. I accelerate to get up to speed after a light, and the car started slowing down instead of continuing to accelerate.

I'm quite sure it was some self-protection circuit (especially since it hasn't happened since and I would never be to stupid as the dealer in letting the battery die), but when your car slows down in traffic it's only as safe as the drivers around you are careful (and a lot of them are appallingly not careful in the greater Austin TX area). I didn't have a PDF of the PDI (let alone knowledge that it existed and that it said they were required to charge the thing before delivering it to me) to demand they charge it before I took it home, so I just rolled my eyes at their idiocy and drove it home despite the dead battery.

 

[Landshark]

Surely you've driven on state highways before? These roads (50+ mph with intersections and traffic lights) exist all over the place. It's not a local anomaly.

You are correct. I have driven on those roads. Apparently they’re open to everyone.

One thing I’ve learned while driving on those roads is that a vehicle cannot “slow” to 30mph, like you said, if it is traveling at 29mph.

 

[Pooky]

Thanks. It may be possible to minimize misinterpretations, if we use the officially sanctioned Honda terminology when discussing the vehicle.

But that may not be possible.

In the specific quote you you replied to, I was referring to series (as opposed to parallel) hybrid mode. In parallel hybrid mode (the combination of direct/engine-drive mode and battery propulsion) the engine would not be capable of sending more power to the wheels by spinning faster in its fixed gear ratio. In series hybrid mode, assuming that the traction motors are not already at their maximum output, all the engine would need to do to send more power to the wheels is spin the generator faster.

 

[Landshark]

If the engine needs to supply power directly to the wheels, all it needs to do is spin faster.

^^^ Here’s the quote.

In parallel hybrid mode (the combination of direct/engine-drive mode and battery propulsion) the engine would not be capable of sending more power to the wheels by spinning faster in its fixed gear ratio.

Up to a point, in EDM, the engine is capable of sending more power directly to the wheels. It takes more power for the car to accelerate. It can accelerate in EDM only, with no assistance from the traction motor, provided that acceleration is very gentle.

In series hybrid mode, assuming that the traction motors are not already at their maximum output, all the engine would need to do to send more power to the wheels is spin the generator faster.

There’s only one traction motor. The output from the ICE driven generator fluctuates constantly and is also given different tasks. Sometimes it is charging the batteries, sometimes it is powering the traction motor, sometimes it is doing both. It is possible that more current could be sent to the traction motor rather than the batteries, thereby increasing power to the wheels, without increasing engine RPM’s.

 

[Pooky]

It can accelerate in EDM only, with no assistance from the traction motor, provided that acceleration is very gentle.

You are theoretically correct, however I am finding conflicting information from Honda about how EDM actually functions. In the press kit, it says that EDM functions as a "parallel hybrid" mode, however according to Honda's own i-MMD explanation videos, EDM uses no battery simultaneously with mechanical propulsion.
https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/2018-honda-clarity-plug-in-hybrid-press-kit


I'm not sure that I would consider the vehicle shown in the video above to be operating in a "parallel hybrid" mode because the mechanical propulsion is not simultaenously aided by electrical propulsion (and due to Honda's i-MMD design, engine drive mode should theoretically be charging the battery).

It is possible that more current could be sent to the traction motor rather than the batteries, thereby increasing power to the wheels, without increasing engine RPM’s.

That is a possible situation, however I am not sure than I understand what point you are making. What you claim here does not negate what I claim in the quote above yours. Both methods are solutions to the issue of how the vehicle might increase power to the wheels when necessary.

 

[Lowell_Greenberg]

According to NHTSA website, there are multiple complaints against 2018 and 2019 Honda Clarity safety issues, reports of H. Clarity suddenly lost power in the midst of driving, putting both driver and passengers in dangers. seemed like Honda Clarity is not a safe car to own, they might have a faulty engine design. Reliability and Safety are two aspects of any vehicles not to take lightly by any vehicle operators. Wondering whether any Clarity owners can give some insight and truthful reviews? Any regrets despite the great tax rebates and savings? Toyota Prius is much better in terms of reliability and safety?

Consumer Reports gives the Honda Clarity a far above average reliability rating.

The Clarity, is more an EV than ICE vehicle when compared to the Prius. For example, with a Clarity, I would avoid draining the EV battery to two bars and then accelerating quickly up an extended long , steep incline. It is likely going to be loud and slow. The much lighter and more fuel efficient PHEV Prius, would likely handle this situation much better.

From a pure efficiency perspective, allowing the EV battery to almost completely drain may make sense- but there are driving situations such as steep inclines, and headwinds where it is better to avoid this by planned use of hybrid mode.

It is really up to the Clarity owner to plan ahead based on their projected drive for optimal driving. In many cases, just allowing the Clarity to automatically select driving modes will result in both maximum efficiency and an enjoyable ride. But not always.



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[petteyg359]

You are correct. I have driven on those roads. Apparently they’re open to everyone.

One thing I’ve learned while driving on those roads is that a vehicle cannot “slow” to 30mph, like you said, if it is traveling at 29mph.

Whose *** are you pulling 29mph from? You stop at a red light. The light turns green. You accelerate to get up to the speed limit. You hit 50 and the car starts slowing down (coasting) despite your foot on the pedal not moving. Why is that so hard to process?

 

[Landshark]

If the vehicle is already moving, sure. Try ~52 to go from a stop light to 55 on a highway in traffic and still piss off the people behind you because you're accelerating in a not-so-accelerated fashion.

I accelerate to get up to speed after a light, and the car started slowing down instead of continuing to accelerate.

Whose *** are you pulling 29mph from? You stop at a red light. The light turns green. You accelerate to get up to the speed limit. You hit 50 and the car starts slowing down (coasting) despite your foot on the pedal not moving. Why is that so hard to process?

I was on a 50 mph road, and the accelerator just stopped working. The car slowed down to 30 even with it floored

I’ve processed your words and determined that you need to get your story straight.

My interest level in reading anything you have to say is in rapid decline.

 

[Landshark]

You are theoretically correct, however I am finding conflicting information from Honda about how EDM actually functions.

Yes, there is conflicting information from Honda.

That is a possible situation, however I am not sure than I understand what point you are making. What you claim here does not negate what I claim in the quote above yours. Both methods are solutions to the issue of how the vehicle might increase power to the wheels when necessary.

Agreed. The point was that there is more than one way for the car to send additional power to the wheels, more RPM’s don’t always equate to more power to the wheels and we have very little control over engine speed.

Up to a point, in EDM, the engine is capable of sending more power directly to the wheels. It takes more power for the car to accelerate. It can accelerate in EDM only, with no assistance from the traction motor, provided that acceleration is very gentle.

In response to your edited/deleted post that arrived via email, requesting evidence to support the above statement: The owners manual, on page 132, displays power being supplied directly to the wheels by the engine only, as well as power being supplied directly to the wheels by the engine only while simultaneously charging the batteries. I have observed both conditions on the Energy Flow Monitor.

 

[petteyg359]

There's nothing inconsistent in what I said across multiple posts, and I attempted to put it in one for you in my last post. If you still claim to not understand, that's on you.

 

[Landshark]

There's nothing inconsistent in what I said across multiple posts, and I attempted to put it in one for you in my last post. If you still claim to not understand, that's on you.

I understand your words quite well and I won’t bother to read another.

Farewell.

 

[Pooky]

There's nothing inconsistent in what I said across multiple posts, and I attempted to put it in one for you in my last post. If you still claim to not understand, that's on you.

Don't mind him. He gets his kicks over pedantry.

 

[KClark]

Petteyg, I had no trouble understanding what you said.

 

[Landshark]

Don't mind him. He gets his kicks over pedantry.

I can still see your words. You are free to judge as you please.

When I read misinformation, questionable analysts or pure nonsense, I’m going to ask for an explanation or provide input based on my experience and knowledge of the vehicle and its systems.

We’re here to learn. And it’s easy to filter out the rubbish.

 

[Pooky]

When I read misinformation, questionable analysts or pure nonsense, I’m going to ask for an explanation

Let me attempt to simplify petteyg's anecdote for your consumption. Here is what they claim happened in chronological order:
1. They stopped at a red light (0 MPH)

You stop at a red light.

2. The light turns green and they begin to accelerate from 0 MPH towards the speed limit of 50 MPH

The light turns green. You accelerate to get up to the speed limit.

3. They approach the speed limit, travelling above 30 MPH but lower than 50 MPH

You hit 50

I was on a 50 mph road ... The car slowed down to 30 even with it floored

4. They experience a loss of power that results in the vehicle's deceleration

and the car starts slowing down (coasting) despite your foot on the pedal not moving.

The car slowed down to 30 even with it floored

Again:
1. Stopped
2. Accelerating towards the speed limit
3. Reaches 50 MPH (speed limit)
3. Shortly thereafter experiencing a loss of power in which the vehicle began to decelerate from 50 MPH to 30 MPH

@petteyg359 Would you care confirm or deny the accuracy of this interpretation of your experience?

 

[petteyg359]

Yes, Pooky, that is what I said and what I meant.

 

[Landshark]

Let me attempt to simplify

My most sincere apologies that you spent even one minute of your life rehashing the subject.

I’m even moderately disturbed that I took the time to respond.