InsideEVs Podcast episodes

Domenick said:
I'd better post up that last episode, then. :)

EV Charging Infrastructure Series Episode Six: Shell Recharge Solutions

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Right on! One very interesting thing to me from this video are when we may see more DCFC at Shell (or other brand) convenience stores in the US. In the region where I live, this year a 7 Eleven in Sarasota FL near I-75 added two 7 Eleven branded Chargepoint EVSE (shared with two plugheads each, one of the four is CHAdeMo) and a WaWa in Bradenton installed four EVgo EVSE. A year or two ago Tesla Superchargers were installed at a Wawa in Tampa, last yeat Tesla Superchargers at a Shell station on Alligator Alley, and earlier this year at another WaWa in Punta Gorda. A CCS at that Shell station would fill a 80+ mile gap in the interstate charging network.
 
Domenick said:
... Infrastructure Series Episode Six: Shell Recharge Solutions ...
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I wish I'd caught this when it went by, as my experience to date with Shell Recharge has been anything but satisfactory.
Their support is offshore and clueless, their website is broken, and their map shows almost *no* US locations even though
they do exist by now and are in Plugshare. All-round "WTF" for them so far.

_H*
 
Hi Domenick and crew, new forum member here!

As my screen name suggests, I have two leafs… 2022SV and 2016 SL. During the latest episode of your podcast, (which I listened to today and enjoyed thoroughly), the topic of plug and charge came up again as it has in the past. As a owner of lower-end and older EVs, I am constantly wondering when we are going to finally get to the place where there is some standardization across public DC chargers. Speaking mostly of the interface and apps… It seems like every single one is different! I am wondering if the podcast could address the issue of plug and charge or something like that For older EV’s like mine. Do you think that will ever happen, or am I stuck with many many apps forever? Thanks again guys.
 
Whidbey Double Leafer said:
It seems like every single one is different!
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The history shows multiple standards have been proposed and implemented which explains but does not excuse the babbling. The multiple of standard is no standard at all:
  • J1772 - the current handshake protocol is based on a power industry standard. The expectation was power companies would become the direct suppliers but that never happened. So the protocol uses voltages and resistances to signal when to assert power on the pins with no digital network data to share vehicle identification. They could have implemented an ethernet protocol but somehow the SAE let analog designers screw it up. Although the standard supports a DC protocol, it has been ignored by EV makers.
  • CCS-1 - unable or willing to pass DC through the power pins, they gloomed on a set of power pins to make the Franken-plug. Only now they decided in some cases to implement a digital communications protocol in addition to the existing power company protocol ... the cacophony continues!
  • Tesla (now called North American Standard) - handles both AC and DC over the same plug. Tesla-to-Tesla communications is digital including the VIN as well as digital, electrical protocol. BTW, there are Bluetooth chips in both the car and Tesla plug. It also supports the retro J1772 protocol so Teslas can use non-Tesla chargers. Tesla has announced a Tesla plug-to-CCS-1 adapter that requires a more recent vehicle charger board and passive adapter.
Early on Tesla built both their chargers and EVs. They integrated them using a digital communications protocol that remains the envy of non-Tesla EV owners. Yet even making it open, only one other company decided to adopt it. The problem are the non-Tesla EV makers who each try to monetize their approach and created a charging Tower of Babel.

I have used a Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapter. In the earliest days, Tesla had a plan to use CHAdeMO but soon thought better of it. The brilliance of engineering and building both sides of the charging equipment and EVs, the Tesla approach, still eludes EV makers who want someone else to do the chargers ... and charging companies remain incapable of building EVs. Heck even VW that setup Electrify America has made EVs that won't charge at an Electrify America station.

Bob Wilson
 
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bwilson4web said:
The history shows multiple standards have been proposed and implemented which explains but does not excuse the babbling. The multiple of standard is no standard at all:
  • J1772 - the current handshake protocol is based on a power industry standard. The expectation was power companies would become the direct suppliers but that never happened. So the protocol uses voltages and resistances to signal when to assert power on the pins with no digital network data to share vehicle identification. They could have implemented an ethernet protocol but somehow the SAE let analog designers screw it up. Although the standard supports a DC protocol, it has been ignored by EV makers.
  • CCS-1 - unable or willing to pass DC through the power pins, they gloomed on a set of power pins to make the Franken-plug. Only now they decided in some cases to implement a digital communications protocol in addition to the existing power company protocol ... the cacophony continues!
  • Tesla (now called North American Standard) - handles both AC and DC over the same plug. Tesla-to-Tesla communications is digital including the VIN as well as digital, electrical protocol. BTW, there are Bluetooth chips in both the car and Tesla plug. It also supports the retro J1772 protocol so Teslas can use non-Tesla chargers. Tesla has announced a Tesla plug-to-CCS-1 adapter that requires a more recent vehicle charger board and passive adapter.
Early on Tesla built both their chargers and EVs. They integrated them using a digital communications protocol that remains the envy of non-Tesla EV owners. Yet even making it open, only one other company decided to adopt it. The problem are the non-Tesla EV makers who each try to monetize their approach and created a charging Tower of Babel.

I have used a Tesla-to-CHAdeMO adapter. In the earliest days, Tesla had a plan to use CHAdeMO but soon thought better of it. The brilliance of engineering and building both sides of the charging equipment and EVs, the Tesla approach, still eludes EV makers who want someone else to do the chargers ... and charging companies remain incapable of building EVs. Heck even VW that setup Electrify America has made EVs that won't charge at an Electrify America station.

Bob Wilson
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Thanks Bob, yes, I am constantly astounded by the many different apps that are needed to charge and the many different processes that you have to go through to charge at all the variety of different stations. I wish there was a standard process, such as all of them using or having the option to easily use a credit card to tap and pay and immediately just start charging. It’s hard to understand why this is not easier and more standardized. It feels like a victory every time I get the charger to actually provide power to my car! This should be routine, but it’s not. In my opinion we need to make charging as easy and seamless as filling the tank with gas.
 
Domenick said:
Episode 142.

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Thanks Domenick!

I tend to listen to the podcasts now while out hiking. Because of Xmas I didn't get to this one until yesterday. Drove our new ID4, and I have to agree with Kyle, the ID4 is a good all around vehicle. Anyway, I wanted to comment on Kyle's charging discussion - I think he's right. The charging situation is not OK out there. The closest EA to me, people tend to leave positive reviews on plugshare, but when you read the comment, it usually is something like "2 and 4 down, but 3 worked". We also have (had!) Caltrans 50 kW chargers they installed along my area (I'm east of the Sierra in CA, along 395). Those Caltrans chargers added a few spots of either redundancy or emergency stopping to charge. But now they are all broken, or almost all broken. Only a few ChargePoint installs seem reliable, but those don't go further North than Inyokern along 395. Along 395 between me and Mammoth is basically EA, and broken Caltrans chargers. If you aren't familiar with the east side of CA, 395 is a very busy route between LA and mammoth, as well as to Tahoe. Recreation out here for camping, hiking, skiing and resorts keeps the traffic flowing. I'm impartial, but the Eastern Sierra is pretty special.

The vehicles coming out now are fantastic. But what can we do about charging? Like I said, I think Kyle is right - throwing more at the wall, to see what sticks, can't be the right solution. Chargers need to be up, 99.99% and have redundancy, and they don't. What can we do?

Separately, the topic about you waiting to get a Bolt was correct - looks like the Bolt will have a full tax credit from Jan until March. Good luck on your purchase! I think the Bolt is a fantastic value. I thought I was going to have to wait to find an ID4, but got lucky last week with an unsold one popping up. Despite all the criticism I've seen on their software, so far we really like it. Yes their software is a bit complicated / quirky, but its snappy. No lag. And I use Android auto anyway 99% of the time. It is so much better than my 2018 Leaf was.
 
danrjones said:
Thanks Domenick!

I tend to listen to the podcasts now while out hiking. Because of Xmas I didn't get to this one until yesterday. Drove our new ID4, and I have to agree with Kyle, the ID4 is a good all around vehicle. Anyway, I wanted to comment on Kyle's charging discussion - I think he's right. The charging situation is not OK out there. The closest EA to me, people tend to leave positive reviews on plugshare, but when you read the comment, it usually is something like "2 and 4 down, but 3 worked". We also have (had!) Caltrans 50 kW chargers they installed along my area (I'm east of the Sierra in CA, along 395). Those Caltrans chargers added a few spots of either redundancy or emergency stopping to charge. But now they are all broken, or almost all broken. Only a few ChargePoint installs seem reliable, but those don't go further North than Inyokern along 395. Along 395 between me and Mammoth is basically EA, and broken Caltrans chargers. If you aren't familiar with the east side of CA, 395 is a very busy route between LA and mammoth, as well as to Tahoe. Recreation out here for camping, hiking, skiing and resorts keeps the traffic flowing. I'm impartial, but the Eastern Sierra is pretty special.

The vehicles coming out now are fantastic. But what can we do about charging? Like I said, I think Kyle is right - throwing more at the wall, to see what sticks, can't be the right solution. Chargers need to be up, 99.99% and have redundancy, and they don't. What can we do?

Separately, the topic about you waiting to get a Bolt was correct - looks like the Bolt will have a full tax credit from Jan until March. Good luck on your purchase! I think the Bolt is a fantastic value. I thought I was going to have to wait to find an ID4, but got lucky last week with an unsold one popping up. Despite all the criticism I've seen on their software, so far we really like it. Yes their software is a bit complicated / quirky, but its snappy. No lag. And I use Android auto anyway 99% of the time. It is so much better than my 2018 Leaf was.
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Thanks for the comment. I was lucky enough to be on the VW ID. 4 First Drive program and thought it was a terrific car to drive. If I had more budget, I'd be very happy with one of those.

Should add, yes, the Dc fast charging infrastructure needs a lot of work. Fingers crossed Tesla expands to CCS this year and maybe government looks at adding reliability clauses to its contracts and awards.
 
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