How to Replace a Lost Key Fob for <$75

[Vinoh]

Hi Vinoh
A cheap android tablet will do the job... Amazon Fire is the cheapest - you could get a refurb for probably $50 USD - this is a Canadian listing:

https://www.amazon.ca/Fire-7-Tablet...ywords=fire+tablet&qid=1661957890&s=pc&sr=1-1

and you can convert it to Android easily ( I have done it)

https://www.maketecheasier.com/turn-amazon-fire-tablet-into-stock-android-device/

Good luck! John

Thanks for the suggestion, John. Were you able to install and run MaxiAP200 on the converted tablet? I was able to install it with Bluestacks but it just quits immediately when I try to run it.

 

[JohnT]

Thanks for the suggestion, John. Were you able to install and run MaxiAP200 on the converted tablet? I was able to install it with Bluestacks but it just quits immediately when I try to run it.

yes - with no problem

 

[MrFixit]

A cheap android tablet will do the job... Amazon Fire is the cheapest

A warning - Autel MaxiAP200 does not support tablets.
It will not install on a tablet from the Play Store,

BUT -

I know from personal experience that it does run just fine on a tablet. I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 (10" tablet), and have MaxiAP200 (with Beta) running on it just fine. You just have to "side-load" it by downloading the .apk files outside of the Play Store. You need to do this for MaxiAP200 and also for the Diag-Asia Apps.

I don't know whether a Amazon Fire (altered, as @JohnT describes) would behave like a phone or a tablet. Presumably if this winds up as a 64-bit Android I don't see why it wouldn't work.

@JohnT - Have you actually tested MaxiAP200 on a Fire tablet modified in this way?

Edit - John - I just saw your post that you have done this. Thanks.

 

[JohnT]

Thanks Mr Fixit ... your 'correction' is correct .. I did do it by downloading the .apk files....and it behaves like a tablet. Home now and
just confirming things... it is an Amazon Fire converted and it is running Autel, Car Scanner and Torque... needs to connect to internet to run Autel...
and it has just decided to do a system update! ok - finished and remains in 'android' mode. It is an Amazon Fire HD 10 (9th generation) and I have

com.autel.maxiap200.autelap-1.41-free-www.asksum.com.apk 74,5 MB,
Diag Asia_v1.42.xapk 107 MB
and apkcombo-installer.apk 4.28 MB

in my download folder - but I don't remember where I got them from or what I did with them - age - sorry.
and a .cbz file for Car Scanner.

I also bought an obd splitter on Amazon which allows two devices and also allows them to be turned on or off.

Regards John

 

[MrFixit]

it is an Amazon Fire converted and it is running Autel, Car Scanner and Torque

John:

Just to double-check -- The last I knew, your Amazon Fire was running 1.41, Build 1.40.06_32. This will run the basic Honda Diagnostics, but it will NOT be able to run the 2.01.54 Beta. @Vinoh specifically needs (we think) the Beta in order to activate his replacement keyfob. Your particular Fire seems to be 32 bit rather than the required 64 bit.

Please confirm...

 

[Vinoh]

John:

Just to double-check -- The last I knew, your Amazon Fire was running 1.41, Build 1.40.06_32. This will run the basic Honda Diagnostics, but it will NOT be able to run the 2.01.54 Beta. @Vinoh specifically needs (we think) the Beta in order to activate his replacement keyfob. Your particular Fire seems to be 32 bit rather than the required 64 bit.

Please confirm...

haha! I just came back from Costco with a Galaxy Tab A7 Lite they have on sale and then saw your messages. (I figured it would be useful for other special tech needs) I'll have to do some research to refresh my memory on where to get the apk files and how to sideload them but I suspect I'll figure it out. Never easy, is it?

 

[MrFixit]

There are many sites. One of the more popular ones is https://m.apkpure.com/
You need both maxiAP200, and Diag-Asia.

When you were back and forth with Autel (and ran into the roadblock of iOS) - do you know whether they authorized your serial number for access to the beta version? Or, did they not get that far because at the time you didn't have Android?

 

[Vinoh]

There are many sites. One of the more popular ones is https://m.apkpure.com/
You need both maxiAP200, and Diag-Asia.

When you were back and forth with Autel (and ran into the roadblock of iOS) - do you know whether they authorized your serial number for access to the beta version? Or, did they not get that far because at the time you didn't have Android?

Ah cool, thanks for the info.
Yes, they authorized it right away but then I found out about the limitations, one by one, as I ran into problems. Of course, I still haven't been able to confirm it's actually authorized. Hopefully soon.

 

[JohnT]

John:

Just to double-check -- The last I knew, your Amazon Fire was running 1.41, Build 1.40.06_32. This will run the basic Honda Diagnostics, but it will NOT be able to run the 2.01.54 Beta. @Vinoh specifically needs (we think) the Beta in order to activate his replacement keyfob. Your particular Fire seems to be 32 bit rather than the required 64 bit.

Please confirm...

turned it back on and just confirmed autel AND32_Honda V2.01 Installed ( I basically don't use it much anymore because Car Scanner does allI normally need)
I used it a week or 2 ago and it recognized all the Clarity stuff - trying to retract the parking brake 'almost' worked :-(

 

[Vinoh]

Success!!! I was able to install the Autel apps from the Play Store onto my Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite tablet without needing to sideload. Then the 2.01.54 beta showed up right away. After that, I followed the prompts to add a key and everything went smoothly.

Thanks all for your patience and support!

 

[MrFixit]

Thanks all for your patience and support!

Excellent !!
I'm surprised the Play Store installed to the tablet. Perhaps Autel has changed their policy, and now support tablets.

After this experience, I'll make sure to communicate with @lincomatic so he can make it clear in his blog that beta 2.01.57 is a requirement for programming keyfobs.

 

[lincomatic]

Sorry for not weighing in earlier... for some reason, the forum is not notifying me of replies, although I set it to do that.
I just tested w/ my iOS device, and verified that indeed, the beta Honda module is required to program one button start keyless fobs.
From the prompts I saw on the phone, it appears that w/o the beta, it is only able to program metal keys via a separate module that plugs into the car's DLC port.

So, as MrFixit said, you're out of luck, unless you have a 64-bit Android device, and manage to get Autel to authorize you for the beta. I have updated my blog w/ the new information.

Also, I played around w/ the IMMO KEYS module some more, and there doesn't seem to be a way to deregister a single lost fob. I'm guessing that the "All keyless access remotes lost" function might work to deregister all of the fobs, and then one could use the add function to re-register the ones that aren't lost, but I'm afraid to try that.

 

[ANovski]

I I fortunately lost my one oem fob the other day, thankfully I had a non oem key cut and programmed by the dealer some time ago. I understand I can probably get another non oem programmed but I’d rather have at least one oem key. My main question is if it’s possible to use an oem touring key fob on a base model. I ask because I found a local seller wanting to offload one for just 100$ new in the package, which is quite a deal compared to the 300-500 I’ve been finding for oem base fobs. I have already a ordered the obd module listed here and plan to follow the steps. Thanks for any insight


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[MrFixit]

My main question is if it’s possible to use an oem touring key fob on a base model

I am 99.99 % sure that there is no difference between the touring and base keyfobs. I say this not from direct experience, but because I am familiar with the process of how these keys function, and I do have experience with a non-oem fob and programming it onto the vehicle..

The bigger question is why?

I do not understand your desire to "have at least one oem key". I bought a keyfob on eBay some time ago, and programmed it into the vehicle per @lincomatic instructions. Not only does it work perfectly, but it is physically indistinguishable from the original fob. The quality is just as good. The only visible difference is the lack of a Honda logo. Also, the new non-oem fob comes with a blank mechanical key which you could have cut to match your vehicle. If you bought a used oem key, the mechanical key would not fit your vehicle.

Here is the fob that I bought...

One thing that may not be obvious... The keyfob does not get programmed. It is the vehicle that gets programmed to accept the fob. That is why you can do all of this through the vehicle's OBD2 connector.

 

[JustAnotherPoorDriver]

One thing that may not be obvious... The keyfob does not get programmed. It is the vehicle that gets programmed to accept the fob. That is why you can do all of this through the vehicle's OBD2 connector.

So now the interesting question: Are the ebay keys all electronically identical, so that if you set your car to accept one ebay key, every other Clarity ebay key would work (modulo the rotating): that is, are the cheap ebay keys all coded with the same id, or are they (as the Honda ones) each "unique"...?

 

[ANovski]

I am 99.99 % sure that there is no difference between the touring and base keyfobs. I say this not from direct experience, but because I am familiar with the process of how these keys function, and I do have experience with a non-oem fob and programming it onto the vehicle..

The bigger question is why?

I do not understand your desire to "have at least one oem key". I bought a keyfob on eBay some time ago, and programmed it into the vehicle per @lincomatic instructions. Not only does it work perfectly, but it is physically indistinguishable from the original fob. The quality is just as good. The only visible difference is the lack of a Honda logo. Also, the new non-oem fob comes with a blank mechanical key which you could have cut to match your vehicle. If you bought a used oem key, the mechanical key would not fit your vehicle.

Here is the fob that I bought...

View attachment 19600

One thing that may not be obvious... The keyfob does not get programmed. It is the vehicle that gets programmed to accept the fob. That is why you can do all of this through the vehicle's OBD2 connector.

My one issue with the aftermarket key fobs is quality control. The aftermarket key fob I have has quite the quirk, it won’t unlock my car with the buttons. The lock button locks the car and the unlock button locks the car as well. All the other buttons and functions work fine except for that one button. With only being able to program so many keys I’d like to have at least one for sure good key.


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[MrFixit]

are the cheap ebay keys all coded with the same id, or are they (as the Honda ones) each "unique"...?

I am not sure about this, but how do you know that the Honda keys are uniquely coded? By virtue of the rotating PRN code system, keys become unique even if they are identical to start with. I'm sure you have seen that there is a well-documented hack where a sophisticated attacker can electronically enter the vehicle by intercepting one code, then using brute force trial and error. The reality is that this method is much more complicated than breaking a window.

This is just a guess, but I think it is likely that the aftermarket keys are electrically identical to the Honda ones (could even be made by the same manufacturer). If the Honda keys have some unique coding, then the aftermarket ones probably do also. There is a good chance that neither the Honda or Aftermarket keys have unique coding and rely on the PRN sequencing to make them unique. The vehicles certainly have unique serialization so that may be used as part of the key registration process to make the PRN's unique even if the keys are not.

 

[MrFixit]

The aftermarket key fob I have has quite the quirk, it won’t unlock my car with the buttons. The lock button locks the car and the unlock button locks the car as well. All the other buttons and functions work fine except for that one button. With only being able to program so many keys I’d like to have at least one for sure good key.

I'll try this with mine...
I have been holding it as a backup and my not have noticed if it behaves as you describe.

Also, although there is a limit to the number of keys you can program into the vehicle (6?), that is only a concurrent limit. You can "remove" all the keys and program in another set of up to 6 any time. So effectively there is no limit to the number of keys you can use throughout the life of the car... Only no more than 6 at a time.

 

[JustAnotherPoorDriver]

I am not sure about this, but how do you know that the Honda keys are uniquely coded? By virtue of the rotating PRN code system, keys become unique even if they are identical to start with. I'm sure you have seen that there is a well-documented hack where a sophisticated attacker can electronically enter the vehicle by intercepting one code, then using brute force trial and error. The reality is that this method is much more complicated than breaking a window.

Seems unlikely they share an ID because that would create lots of problems where you have many Hondas.

e.g., When the dealer gets a shipment of ~9 cars on a truck, and clicks unlock, I find it unlikely that one key would unlock them all.

Also, since the cars typically try to match with the past ~256 (2^8) or so codes (because you may have pocket pressed "unlock" while outside the range of the car), and since the counter was often 16 bits (2^16 codes) (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_code), if all keys shared an "id", you would expect that there is about a 1/256 (2^16/2^8 = 2^8 = 256) chance that two cars have overlapping codes. If so, by the birthday paradox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem) this would imply that if you had ~19 random Hondas in one place, one of their key would open two of them if there's no unique ID (and this would reset that car to match that key's rotation, possibly making the car no longer respond to the earlier actual key*). This would be a nightmare in any service department. The numbers might have changed if they've expanded the key size, but I doubt they re-engineered the whole thing.

*the system looks ahead on the rotating code, since it's possible that you pressed the button and it missed it. It doesn't need to look back. If car A accidentally accepts car B's code that's 200 ahead, it resets its counter, and car A's actual key would likely no longer work.

As for the generic: If it's the genuine chip, then yes--probably has a "unique" id. If it's a cheap copy, however, it's possible they are all burned with the same id. I guess someone could buy 2 keys and do some experiments (or one key and a reader, since I think the ID is both cleartext and encoded).

 

[MrFixit]

Seems unlikely they share an ID because that would create lots of problems where you have many Hondas.

I have a feeling that all these keys (Honda and aftermarket) have unique ID numbers. This is trivial with today's semiconductor technology.