How to encourage the mass market into EV's

[Calliope]

Yes, many people don't want to change. That's pretty common, and there's nothing EVs can do about that. It's not an ICE - it's totally different, and it requires a paradigm shift in thinking and in action. The things it requires aren't hard, but they are different, and a lot of people don't like different. They want the same thing, but with more benefits, LOL. You have to make people want the change enough. I'm spending hours reading the manual and online forums while I figure out how to best use my Tesla Y, and most people would be unwilling to do that. They don't realize that if they want something better, they can't have what they had before.

The best place to make inroads is for the people who do want to change, but find the change difficult. Planning ahead so you know where the charging locations are. Accepting that spending an hour charging your car while answering email and reading Twitter is no different than sitting on your couch for an hour answering email and reading Twitter. Making adjustments for really cold or hot weather. Stuff like that.

 

[Bruce M.]

I disagree, I think the the biggest blockage is many people's inability to charge at home, either because they're in multi-resident buildings or they're renting and can't have one installed. It's related to range anxiety, but is at a more fundamental level i.e. you'll have range anxiety if you can't plug your car in at home and wake up to a full battery. It's particularly true for city dwellers (more likely to live in those circumstances), although cities are where EVs shine, in my opinion.

I'm with you. The best way to speed the transition to EVs is to make it easy for anyone to charge at home. Among other things, that means incentives or subsidies for apartment and condo complexes.

 

[Puppethead]

Many people have no interest in having to go begging for fuel. THis is part of range anxiety, what hoops am I going to have to jump through, what embarrassment to I have to endure to fuel my vehicle?

I think as EVs become more common we'll start seeing more accommodation for providing some sort of hassle-free electrical hookup. I know KwikTrip/KwikStar c-stores offer 120 V outlets for charging in some parking spaces (usually near the air compressor). They're doing it the right way, just let someone park and plug in. It'd be nice to do Level 2 the way 7-Eleven is, but if more places have easy-to-access 120 V outlets then leveraging the electrical grid becomes easy.

 

[Calliope]

KwikTrip/KwikStar c-stores offer 120 V outlets for charging in some parking spaces

Which might look like they're doing something, but is really worthless......that would give someone less than a mile's worth of electricity while they're there. It is probably helpful for employees who are there for 7-10 hours, but not for shoppers.

 

[ENirogus]

I think as EVs become more common we'll start seeing more accommodation for providing some sort of hassle-free electrical hookup. I know KwikTrip/KwikStar c-stores offer 120 V outlets for charging in some parking spaces (usually near the air compressor). They're doing it the right way, just let someone park and plug in. It'd be nice to do Level 2 the way 7-Eleven is, but if more places have easy-to-access 120 V outlets then leveraging the electrical grid becomes easy.

This gets into chicken/egg territory. As they become more common, or how to get them to become more common.
My point is, people are both proud and fearful. Give them ways to assuage their fears and maintain their pride and you will have success. People like free, but don't want to rely on free. I am proud, I can pay for what I need, rather than, is it OK for me to plug in here?
So this is my thought process:
220 volt outlets cost money, real charging stations cost real money, with no promise of return on investment[right now]
125 volt outlets are de rigueur on the outside of convenience stores and gas stations, but are almost worthless for actual charging.

What if you made a portable ATM sized device full of Lion batteries that could bang out 'x' kW 'x' times a day. Much like those air pumps, they sit unused most of the time, so they recharge during the 23-1/2 hours a day they are unused. It could probably even be DC fast charging, but only for a limited amount. YOu pull up and it says 'I have this much available' and you plug in run your card and bing off you go. Again not intended to be economical, but if it gets used enough could prove the case for installing a real charging station to the store owner.
In an urban setting where a person has to street park, and can charge at work, but may sometimes not get to do that[someone else beat them to the charge station] knowing that the 'emergency power' station is down the block, even though it is expensive, takes the fear out of it

 

[R P]

I think the biggest resistance to EVs is the cost. When I bought my Kona EV back in 2019, the ICE equivalent (Ultimate trim) was $20K less. But at the time, I received a $10K subsidy from the govt, and the other $10K will be made up by free charging (have yet to pay for a charge) within 5 years. So that was good enough for me.

We needed two cars in our household anyway, and most of our driving is city, so having an EV made a lot of sense. And the other car is needed for off-road (our cabin) and trips. However, earlier this year we also did a longer trip with the Kona, and it worked out very well, with charging (all free), and took about the same time as it would have with our ICE car. That may not be the case for everyone, but here in BC we have a comparatively good charging infrastructure, at least for now.

I think once the cost comes down to being equal or near equal to an ICE equivalent car, owning an EV will be a no-brainer. In the meantime, I think govts will need to continue with subsidies until that time, if they expect people to choose EVs.

 

[ENirogus]

I think the biggest resistance to EVs is the cost. When I bought my Kona EV back in 2019, the ICE equivalent (Ultimate trim) was $20K less. But at the time, I received a $10K subsidy from the govt, and the other $10K will be made up by free charging (have yet to pay for a charge) within 5 years. So that was good enough for me.

We needed two cars in our household anyway, and most of our driving is city, so having an EV made a lot of sense. And the other car is needed for off-road (our cabin) and trips. However, earlier this year we also did a longer trip with the Kona, and it worked out very well, with charging (all free), and took about the same time as it would have with our ICE car. That may not be the case for everyone, but here in BC we have a comparatively good charging infrastructure, at least for now.

I think once the cost comes down to being equal or near equal to an ICE equivalent car, owning an EV will be a no-brainer. In the meantime, I think govts will need to continue with subsidies until that time, if they expect people to choose EVs.

Yes this is true, but people do not buy the cheapest car available. The average car is much more expensive than the cheapest car

 

[R P]

Yes this is true, but people do not buy the cheapest car available. The average car is much more expensive than the cheapest car

Yeah, but their are no cheap EVs, at least ones with a decent range. The problem is still the cost of batteries. Despite the promises (hopes), I still don't see them coming down in price significantly.

And for a given range, a battery cost is about the same for an expensive car than a cheap one. So that tends to drive development and sales of more expensive EV cars.

 

[Puppethead]

Which might look like they're doing something, but is really worthless...

My point being for emergency charge that's an example of easily-accessible Level 1. I agree we need better chargers, but if every place that has electricity has an outdoor power outlet (which is actually common) then emergency charging becomes practically ubiquitous.

 

[miatadan]

I think the biggest resistance to EVs is the cost. When I bought my Kona EV back in 2019, the ICE equivalent (Ultimate trim) was $20K less. But at the time, I received a $10K subsidy from the govt, and the other $10K will be made up by free charging (have yet to pay for a charge) within 5 years. So that was good enough for me.

We needed two cars in our household anyway, and most of our driving is city, so having an EV made a lot of sense. And the other car is needed for off-road (our cabin) and trips. However, earlier this year we also did a longer trip with the Kona, and it worked out very well, with charging (all free), and took about the same time as it would have with our ICE car. That may not be the case for everyone, but here in BC we have a comparatively good charging infrastructure, at least for now.

I think once the cost comes down to being equal or near equal to an ICE equivalent car, owning an EV will be a no-brainer. In the meantime, I think govts will need to continue with subsidies until that time, if they expect people to choose EVs.

The reason I do not have an EV is mainly because of cost. Does not help that Ontario lost the rebates for EV’s when Doug Ford got into power.

Also never been fan of large vehicle. This is why the Tesla Model 3, Mini Cooper SE and Mazda MX30 appealing

Will take to fall to have enough size of deposit as I prefer to keep monthly payments lower.

Alot of people budget $35000 for vehicle and most EV’s start at $45000 plus

Dan




Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs

 

[ENirogus]

The average vehicle price as of January is over 40k. The Niro does 240 miles for 41, the Kona, 260. It is not really about money, per se.

Yes battery prices are coming down, I think100kW batteries, with small incremental improvements in efficiency will get range to high enough levels to that it will shut up all but the irrational.

 

[Calliope]

for emergency charge that's an example of easily-accessible Level 1

I'm not even sure I'd consider it an emergency charge at that speed; I think L1 charging is really only worthwhile for home charging where your car will be idle for 8-12 hours or more. Don't get me wrong - I think it's great for home charging for a lot of people, but if I'm stuck and can't get home and I have my choice between spending 3 hours plugged into an L1 outlet or 1 hour waiting for CAA to come tow my car, I'll be choosing CAA.

 

[bwilson4web]

I only use L1 when no choice. For example, at a motel with an unprotected 110 VAC outlet or an OPPs event and need enough charge to reach an L2/NEMA 14-50.

Personally I would like to see parking lot light poles with a hot power outlet at the base. When light is off, power the outlet.

Bob Wilson

 

[John Lumsden]

The only people that are getting around just fine are people like you and me, because we're early adopters who enjoy this kind of stuff. I admit it. We are a decided minority! I'll bet that 9 out of 10 people won't even consider an EV until they don't have to change their ways at all.

Norway has done so well with the majority of new car purchases now being an EV. People have changed their ways to a situation they consider better overall, with many incentives relating to cost and convenience available as a result of national policy.

 

[SSpiffy]

Yeah, but the entire country of Norway is smaller than the state of California.

Edited to add: Lots of people underestimate just how far apart things can be in the US West. San Bernardino County in California is the size of Slovenia. The only place I've been that matches it is Australia away from the coasts.

Norway has done so well with the majority of new car purchases now being an EV. People have changed their ways to a situation they consider better overall, with many incentives relating to cost and convenience available as a result of national policy.

Gene 2020 Honda Clarity
Sent from my Pixel 3 using Inside EVs mobile app

 

[Bruce M.]

As someone who mainly charges on level 1 at home, I have to agree. At a mall where someone might park for 2-3 hours, it makes some sense. But the nature of convenience stores is that people are in and out in 10 minutes.

 

[Esprit1st]

Unless you are type to do road trips, do not understand the range anxiety issues and why people obsess about only being able to charge to 80% instead of 90/100%

I live in Roswell, NM. I need 100% for pretty much anything that's out of town because there is no charging infrastructure here at all.

I'm with you. The best way to speed the transition to EVs is to make it easy for anyone to charge at home. Among other things, that means incentives or subsidies for apartment and condo complexes.

Exactly, and being able to charge at work. A few 110V outlets at your workplace are enough. You'd be plugged in for 8hrs a day. That's about 40 miles or so.

 

[Puppethead]

But the nature of convenience stores is that people are in and out in 10 minutes.

There's a difference between regular visit and emergency charging. I completely agree convenience stores need Level 2 charging minimum to be useful, and honestly only if people plan to spend half an hour or more at such a location (Level 2 would have been so much more useful in North America if 3-phase was supported, like in Europe). But making Level 1 outlets readily available everywhere would go a long way to reduce the "I might get stranded" range fears.

 

[Bruce M.]

There's a difference between regular visit and emergency charging. I completely agree convenience stores need Level 2 charging minimum to be useful, and honestly only if people plan to spend half an hour or more at such a location (Level 2 would have been so much more useful in North America if 3-phase was supported, like in Europe). But making Level 1 outlets readily available everywhere would go a long way to reduce the "I might get stranded" range fears.

Level 1 should be ubiquitous at workplaces, residential building garages, and similar places where folks typically spend several hours or more. That's the easy, low-tech way to make life with an EV worry-free for most drivers.

 

[bwilson4web]

Going back to the original title of this thread, my approach based upon reactions:

• How long does it take to charge? - A1. Typically an hour after I get home or 3-4 hours if planning a long trip in the morning.
• A2. It costs $2.75 to drive 100 miles around not counting the free charges at Whole Foods and other mini-malls.
• A3. There is no transmission nor oil changes nor air filter changes.

When you inform them how cheap it is to run an EV, insight is gained.

Bob Wilson