MNSteve
Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused by this 80% rule. Do circuit breakers enforce this rule? If I try to draw 40 amps for an extended period (where 32 amps should be the max allowed) will the breaker pop?
honda clarity touring level 2 charger
- Thread starter chaula
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That's true, but we are on the topic of following electrical codes and an electrician will not install a lower Amp breaker than 50A knowing you have a 40A EVSE. If you're installing it yourself you can do whatever you want at your own risk.
Yes if you have a 40 A breaker. If you have a 50A breaker, it won't pop.
MNSteve
Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to pick nits here, but I think there is a difference between whether the electrician is installing a plug, or hardwiring a device. I do not see how an electrician can be held responsible for what the customer plugs into an outlet that they installed. If I plug 40 amps of load into my 15-amp circuit, it's not the electrician who is breaking the electrical code.
This implies that the breaker is different from a fuse, and has a memory. I suppose this makes sense, but is different from my impression that an X-amp breaker would open at something slightly over X amps, the same way that a fuse would. The things you can learn on a forum about cars . . .
You're quoting me and I'm quoting someone else so it's getting hard to follow along.
Let's say you want to install a plug for your car. You decide on a 14-50 outlet since there's many EVSEs you can choose from that has that plug. When the electrician comes to install that outlet, he will use a 50A breaker. He wouldn't be following code if he uses a 40A or 30A breaker for that 14-50 outlet. He's responsible for putting the right breaker for the right outlet. If he's hardwiring in an EVSE, he will look at the specifications and choose the correct breaker. I hope this clear things up.
MNSteve
Well-Known Member
The problem is that DucRider said that putting a 14-50 plug on a 40-amp circuit is acceptable. I don't know which of you is correct. If code says that you can pair a 14-50 outlet with a 40-amp breaker, then the electrician is not doing anything wrong by doing that, even if the electrician knows that there's a 40-amp charger sitting there that's going to be plugged into the new outlet. It is the electrician's responsibility to follow code; it is not their responsibility to be sure that the user does.
And by the way, you may both be right in the sense that code does vary from locality to locality. One would hope that the regulations about type of plug and size of breaker would be consistent, but I it should also be warm in MN in the Winter . . .
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
I have one electrician quote (who hasn't been out to see what I have-- 200Amp 'challenger' panel). He's asking for $600 for 1 foot away from panel, 14-50 plug. Higher than I was expecting. Haven't done anything yet, have called for another quote.
My market (Eugene, OR) is like a little 'California' in that rates for everything tend to be higher than most parts of the country. So whenever I read prices in forums, my natural instinct is to 'double it' to get an idea of likely cost for my area.
-Dan
My market (Eugene, OR) is like a little 'California' in that rates for everything tend to be higher than most parts of the country. So whenever I read prices in forums, my natural instinct is to 'double it' to get an idea of likely cost for my area.
-Dan
Dan Albrich
Well-Known Member
Good news: I got my NEMA 14-50 plug installed inside my garage this morning. My Jekayla Level 2 40 Amp charger connects and charges at ~30amps as expected.
KentuckyKen on this forum suggested I not say anything about electric car (thank you KentuckyKen!). So I mentioned my father-in-law has a trailer with NEMA 14-50 plug and said nothing else about how I plan to use. Quote for the plug came in at $150-$200. I presume they'll bill me $200 but that's fine.
The portable Jekayla Level 2 40Amp cost $379 on Amazon, so I'm in at $579 installed. My Jekayla has the longer cable (it's more than 16') but the 16' would have worked in my case. I'm delighted to have this piece done. I've already scheduled the cabin to pre-heat at 7am for my normal 7:30am departure.
KentuckyKen on this forum suggested I not say anything about electric car (thank you KentuckyKen!). So I mentioned my father-in-law has a trailer with NEMA 14-50 plug and said nothing else about how I plan to use. Quote for the plug came in at $150-$200. I presume they'll bill me $200 but that's fine.
The portable Jekayla Level 2 40Amp cost $379 on Amazon, so I'm in at $579 installed. My Jekayla has the longer cable (it's more than 16') but the 16' would have worked in my case. I'm delighted to have this piece done. I've already scheduled the cabin to pre-heat at 7am for my normal 7:30am departure.
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Tomrl
Member
Hey Dan: I'm in Eugene too. I've yet to see another Clarity. I'll keep my eyes peeled for you. Tom
I really like the look of this one: https://amazing-e.com/
Even though I built my own OpenEVSE, I now have a second EV and I'm thinking of picking one of these up. As much as I love building toys, this price is nice and low for an EVSE backed by Clipper Creek.
Even though I built my own OpenEVSE, I now have a second EV and I'm thinking of picking one of these up. As much as I love building toys, this price is nice and low for an EVSE backed by Clipper Creek.
craze1cars
Well-Known Member
Yes I own a Mustart 32 amp. Works great, no complaints. Plug it in, it charges the car, screen shows how many kw it’s using right now, how many kWh it used during the charge, and how long the charge has been taking or how long it took. A basic charger witb few frills. No regrets.
craze1cars
Well-Known Member
There is some misinformation on this thread regarding electrical codes again.
Circuit breakers are designed to protect the wiring of the house and the outlets and other components in the wiring on that circuit. It is certainly not a code violation to install a 14/50 outlet and protect it with a 40, 30, or even a 20 amp breaker. All will protect the outlet and that is the only thing the code requires. In fact undersizing breakers for the home wiring is a common practice among HVAC installers when replacing old inefficient electric furnaces that might for example run off a pair of 60 amp breakers, when replacing with a heat pump or other heat source that is much more efficient. They might swap in some 30 amp breakers for the 60s, if the furnace manufacturer recommends it, just to protect the equipment. Of course the wire gauge stays the same and would be drastically oversized but so what? It’s protected and not a code violation.
Always for a 14-50 however it needs to be installed on appropriate gauge wire, either 6 or 8 depending on type of wire, length, and local code...anything smaller would violate code, even if a smaller breaker was installed.
Circuit breakers are designed to protect the wiring of the house and the outlets and other components in the wiring on that circuit. It is certainly not a code violation to install a 14/50 outlet and protect it with a 40, 30, or even a 20 amp breaker. All will protect the outlet and that is the only thing the code requires. In fact undersizing breakers for the home wiring is a common practice among HVAC installers when replacing old inefficient electric furnaces that might for example run off a pair of 60 amp breakers, when replacing with a heat pump or other heat source that is much more efficient. They might swap in some 30 amp breakers for the 60s, if the furnace manufacturer recommends it, just to protect the equipment. Of course the wire gauge stays the same and would be drastically oversized but so what? It’s protected and not a code violation.
Always for a 14-50 however it needs to be installed on appropriate gauge wire, either 6 or 8 depending on type of wire, length, and local code...anything smaller would violate code, even if a smaller breaker was installed.
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Tomrl
Member
Thanks for the input. I was pretty committed to the ClipperCreek 24 amp, then was seduced by the ChargePoint. For my use an overnight charge on 110v is really just fine probably 95% of the time, but it would be nice to be able get a quicker charge when needed and have a portable charger that could be plugged into any 30 Amp circuit. Such a decision...
craze1cars
Well-Known Member
My Mustart will probably never leave the home...I’m using it as my permanent level 2 charger in the garage. Between wife and I our Clarity leaves the garage for 10 to 40 mile treks sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. This is where the faster capacity is so beneficial for us. But for the most part finding other places to plug in a 240v charger is simply futile in my world...not sure where you expect to find a place to plug that thing in if your goal is to use it as a portable. I’ll submit almost nowhere unless you plan to bounce around between a lot of campgrounds. So for me the factory 110 charger lives in the trunk now, and rarely comes out except maybe for an overnight at a relatives home or a friendly hotel that allows me to plug in.
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Tomrl
Member
That sounds reasonable, sometimes these things get over thought.
I was impressed that this has a clipper creek board for a fraction of the cost. However, a bit confused as to why it has a nema 14-30 plug. The website implies that you should use a 30 amp breaker. Other 16amp chargers suggest a 20amp breaker as more than sufficient. Why the discrepancy? I'm assuming that a 30 amp circuit probably requires a different gauge wire. At any rate, I have a 20 amp breaker and am not sure this unit would work. Looks better than the Chinese stuff, however, and it is UL certified.
A standard 240 V outlet is going to be either 30 or 50 amps. There is not a common 240 V that is 20 amps, that I am aware of. This page on their site shows you.
https://www.clippercreek.com/different-plug-types/
This unit is used by Ford and GM based on the UL certification.
14-30 is just a much more common plug. 20A breaker would be fine for that if it’s whats available. Some people may have a 6-20 outlet in their garage for a welder or something. If I could confirm the ground is good, I’d just go to the box store and get parts to make up an adapter.
I would also probably remove the neutral (l-shapes) prong from that plug so it could be used on a 14-50 when traveling.
I would also probably remove the neutral (l-shapes) prong from that plug so it could be used on a 14-50 when traveling.
After reading AlanSqB1's post,I stand corrected. The NEMA 6-20R is the 20 amp outlet that was indicated. I forgot about that one, since its the similar size as the standard 5-15 outlet.
Stayonline has a chart of NEMA connections.
https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/nema-straight-blade-reference-chart.asp
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craze1cars
Well-Known Member
I thought you had your issue resolved and were hiring an electrician to pull a 40 amp circuit?
Anywho, with regards to your breaker question. Any electrician installing a 30 amp plug is required to run 10 gauge wire by code, and will normally then install a 30 amp breaker by common practice (smaller than 30 would also be OK by code). So this is surely the reason they recommend a 30 amp breaker...it's simply the proper size for the circuit with the plug they utilized. Doesn't make any difference what amperage the charger is actually going to pull. It's about wiring the house properly to meet code to prevent fire risk, and nuisance breaker trips, for ANYTHING ELSE that might be plugged into that outlet. Some day that charger will be unplugged and thrown away, and some future owner of the home might plug in a dryer or welder or larger car charger or something instead that will overwhelm the circuit.
People continually confuse portable charger amperage requirements with home wiring code requirements. Because portable chargers can be removed by simply unplugging them, the HOUSE must always be wired properly with the plug. So a 30 amp plug REQUIRES a full 30 amp circuit with properly sized wiring. Even if the intended use for the plug is for a 16 amp, or even a 4 amp product today.
Even though it's a 16 amp charger, this particular charger you were referring to has a 14-30 for nothing for than convenience -- it's a dryer plug outlet commonly found in many garages. So it can be used in many homes and locations easily, without any cost of hiring an electrician. Unplug your dryer, and plug this in.
I think a better question is...why didn't they make it a 24 amp charger? That would make a lot more sense given the plug they installed and the circuits it is intended to run on. I find it a little odd they chose 16 amps, unless they were looking at a price point for marketing purporses, or got a heck of a deal on the 16 amp circuitry and it would have just cost too much and hurt their profits to make it 24.
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