Do you use Urban Public charging?

[DCMB]

This question springs from another thread, and I want to pose it to a wider audience.

If you use your EV primarily for urban driving and commuting do you use public charging stations very often? I'm not including any long distance commuters here, or road trippers. Just those of you who are doing the daily urban driving that most automobile owners do.

I am always interested in the discussion about the need for costly infrastructure in the form of charging stations paid for by the taxpayer. I always ask myself why this is such a big deal, and is it just a red herring thrown in to public discussion by those who have no experience with EV's or have their own agenda? As the battery technology and range of the average EV increases, will there be a need for Urban Public charging infrastructure?

I've had my Leaf+ for almost 2 years and every time someone asks me about it they want to know how many options there are in the city to charge. Honestly I have never had to use one. My house has all the infrastructure I need, done at my own expense. We use the vehicle for urban transportation and commuting and unless I was to drive hundreds of Km's per day I really have no need for any charging facility other than my own garage.

I know I'm very fortunate to have a private residence and a garage so my perspective may be way off the mark.

 

[Calliope]

I have a 2019 Leaf with a 40kWh battery, and no charging available at home at my condo building, so I require public charging. In the summer, I can usually get by once weekly, and in the winter it's about twice a week. That's for my regular driving pattern - if I go to the cottage or have extra business during the week, obviously I'll need to charge more. My friends and family couldn't believe I'd get an electric vehicle without the ability to charge at home, and are surprised that I've lasted 2 years without home charging. (I say "lasted 2 years", because in 2021 I'll be getting a new EV with larger battery, and moving to a condo building with available charging.)

"the discussion about the need for costly infrastructure in the form of charging stations paid for by the taxpayer. I always ask myself why this is such a big deal, and is it just a red herring thrown in to public discussion by those who have no experience with EV's or have their own agenda? As the battery technology and range of the average EV increases, will there be a need for Urban Public charging infrastructure?"

While the range of EVs is increasing, so is the time required to charge them, so people who live in multi-family buildings (rental or condo) are actually going to be more in need of charging options publicly. An increased range is great, but the efficiency (km per kWh) isn't getting better for most vehicles - in some cases, the more luxury (and heavier) EVs are less efficient. If a community (city/county/state/country) wants to increase the penetration of EVs, there are going to have to be more convenient charging options available for those who don't own a house. Whether they're installed by the government, due to buildings getting incentives to install them, or some combination - there have to be publicly available charging options near where people live.

My new condo building offers 2 third party pay-per-use charging stations in their visitor parking area, open to residents and visitors. The rate charged is a pretty standard retail rate ($1.50 per hour for L2). That means that I'll be able to charge my 80+ kWh battery while I'm upstairs in my unit, not while sitting in the car for hours. That's the kind of thing that will help building residents decide they can switch to an EV - I almost moved to a building with a public charging station across the street, because I knew I'd also be able to go home while it charged. So if a community has more adults in multi-family buildings than in houses, they're going to need to adopt something similar if they want to increase the number of EVs.

 

[Recoil45]

I am always interested in the discussion about the need for costly infrastructure in the form of charging stations paid for by the taxpayer. I always ask myself why this is such a big deal, and is it just a red herring thrown in to public discussion by those who have no experience with EV's or have their own agenda? As the battery technology and range of the average EV increases, will there be a need for Urban Public charging infrastructure?

.

There is clearly a need for public charging.

It should never be funded with tax dollars, it should be left to the public sector just like gas stations.

My only other concern is day time charging during high demand times. Every year, in the summer, states like CA, NY and TX call on customers to cut usage during peak usage times. We either need a plan to increase power plant capacity, or mandate charging stations have battery banks that are replenished only during off peak hours. Otherwise we will both disrupt the grid and inflate power prices for all.


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[marshall]

I think there is a need for public chargers, especially since the cost to install a home charging station can run over $1,200. However, if they are going to get used, the price has to be competitive with gas and convenient.

I'm for paying a 5 to 10 dollar a year tax on plugin vehicles to pay for grants to install charging stations at work and public places.

I only use the free to charge ones since most of the ones around here charge by the hour and are more expensive than charging at home. If they charged by the KWh, I think public chargers would get used more often.

 

[Bruce M.]

Many people cannot charge at home, living in multi-unit buildings with no charging ports. Short of forcing (or paying) building owners to install charging, public infrastructure will be needed.

 

[electriceddy]

I use one close to work (slow but convenient), also will tend to shop at locations equipped with EVSE. There are lots of AC machines in beautiful locations (parks, beaches etc) scattered around the Island(s). DC machines (50kW) are also available to use as well as some ~25kW again in convenient and also scenic locations. More are popping up on a regular basis, very EV friendly around here.
All of the above mentioned are FREE to use (except the one at Volkswagen dealer), and have been since 2012, although the 50kW ones will soon require payment (April this year).
I have a 30A EVSE at home, hardly use it.
I will sum up by saying the last 8+ years have allowed the most cost effective form of travel I have ever had in my life.

 

[Fastnf]

I am in favor of public charging but I charge at home using solar and have no need for public charging unless I am on a road trip.

 

[turtleturtle]

I think one of the points of urban charging is to bring people in.

We live farther away. Every time we drive to the city, I plan to park where there is charging to fill up so I can easily make it back home.

Whatever business has the charging, I shop that area. Hopefully we both win in that scenario.

 

[Bruce M.]

Over the summer, I took a mini-vacation in Monterey, California, driving about 120 miles south from my home in San Francisco. Monterey has conveniently placed free Level 2 chargers in two public parking garages near downtown, in close proximity to the city's major restaurant district and many tourist sites. It made my trip absolutely effortless and hassle free. Every town should do this.

 

[Recoil45]

Over the summer, I took a mini-vacation in Monterey, California, driving about 120 miles south from my home in San Francisco. Monterey has conveniently placed free Level 2 chargers in two public parking garages near downtown, in close proximity to the city's major restaurant district and many tourist sites. It made my trip absolutely effortless and hassle free. Every town should do this.

Who paid to for you to charge your car?

Did you thank them?


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[R P]

Who paid to for you to charge your car?

Did you thank them?


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It's the nearby businesses that should be thanking someone. But I'm sure they are paying for it, too, with their local taxes.

 

[Recoil45]

And the rest of California, the vast majority who do not own EVs. But yay, some people get free dung.


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[Puppethead]

Gasoline tax pays for roads, and there are ways that EV owners pay to compensate for not paying that tax such as higher registration fees. Why shouldn't EV charge points be part of driving infrastructure, like the pavement, street lights, or traffic lights and signage?

I recently took a tour through some smaller towns, and the provided municipal charge points made the trip possible. Like municipal parking ramps (which are often free), providing that infrastructure encourages visiting and shopping in these towns.

 

[Recoil45]

Gasoline tax pays for roads, and there are ways that EV owners pay to compensate for not paying that tax such as higher registration fees. Why shouldn't EV charge points be part of driving infrastructure, like the pavement, street lights, or traffic lights and signage?

I recently took a tour through some smaller towns, and the provided municipal charge points made the trip possible. Like municipal parking ramps (which are often free), providing that infrastructure encourages visiting and shopping in these towns.

Do you also support making gas refueling stations part of the driving infrastructure? Hopefully not, that would be ridiculous. Those who choose to drive Gas cars should fully pay to fuel them. Same for EV cars.


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[Calliope]

Who paid to for you to charge your car?

Those are often not paid for and installed by the government, but by business associations and/or individual retail stores or malls -- it's part of their incentive program to make visiting and shopping easier. Ikea used to - in the before-times - offer free L2 and L3 charging in their parking lots. I would often go inside for coffee or lunch while I charged as a thank you. They would get goodwill, improve their reputation as being socially conscious, and possibly get some increased shopping from those charging. I know in England they transitioned from free to pay-per-use, but users got an Ikea coupon in the same amount as what they paid for charging. Also a good idea.

There's no reason urban public charging has to be free, but it should be available. I'm happy to pay for my L2 charging at public charging places, but they've got to be convenient. Sort of like parking - there's a parking lot or parking meter almost everywhere.

 

[SouthernDude]

Public charging, as in Level 2 charging, is a waste of time. Most drivers already live in a residence they can charge at and most apartments have dedicated parking spaces. The proportion of drivers who live in residences without dedicated parking is small and is not worth thinking about at this time.

The quickest way to get charging infrastructure built in apartment complex parking lots is to increase EV sales overall. The best way to increase EV sales overall is to increase the number of DCFC locations across the country.

If most charging is done at the place of residence or hotels, then what good would some Level 2 charger be at some shopping center? Only enthusiasts and early adopters would put up with that. Practically all EV owners now are enthusiasts and early adopters. The only actually useful place for additional Level 2 charging is at the parking lots for remote National Parks. That is it.

 

[Paul K]

From Kingston Ontario Canada. I have a 2018 Leaf S with 40kwh battery. Car is used primarily as a small business service vehicle and 90% of my work is within round trip range from home charging. I do have a few out of town runs where I use an L3 along the route to make EV use possible. Locally the only public charger I use for the most part is at the university arts center where there is a convenient free L2 charging right by the service entrance. It is an convenient that owning an EV gets me parking so close to the door. The free use is merely an added bonus. I would happily pay a nominal fee for charging just for the convenient location.

I share recoil45's general distaste for free public charging. The city installed quite a number of L2 chargers at city owned facilities and for a trial period they were free to use. My experience is that they won't encourage EV ownership but merely attract free loaders who often leave the cables if not the actual charge head laying on the ground. If it wet snows then freezes you can't get the cable out of the frozen snow. And of course some EV owners who lived or worked nearby were hogging the chargers. And don't get me going on cheapskates. Many times I arrived at the arts center to see someone sitting in their Tesla M3 at one of the free chargers. I go in, provide my service which usually takes a minimum of 2 hours and come out to see that they're still there. I feel like going over and asking them if they'd work for $1.50 an hour because that's what they're "saving" by camping out at the charger.

Having available public chargers is good in that it eases the fear of being stranded if you forgot to plug in or end up using up more range than you thought you would and need to get back home. I have read that "range anxiety" is actually "charging anxiety". I would be happy to see more local L3 chargers owned and operated by the public utilities. This is the way to encourage EV use by those who want to travel a distance at times. These could be run at cost so there would be no drawing of tax funds for operation. If local businesses want to have free charging on their premises it's their choice.

 

[SouthernDude]

From Kingston Ontario Canada. I have a 2018 Leaf S with 40kwh battery. Car is used primarily as a small business service vehicle and 90% of my work is within round trip range from home charging. I do have a few out of town runs where I use an L3 along the route to make EV use possible. Locally the only public charger I use for the most part is at the university arts center where there is a convenient free L2 charging right by the service entrance. It is an convenient that owning an EV gets me parking so close to the door. The free use is merely an added bonus. I would happily pay a nominal fee for charging just for the convenient location.

I share recoil45's general distaste for free public charging. The city installed quite a number of L2 chargers at city owned facilities and for a trial period they were free to use. My experience is that they won't encourage EV ownership but merely attract free loaders who often leave the cables if not the actual charge head laying on the ground. If it wet snows then freezes you can't get the cable out of the frozen snow. And of course some EV owners who lived or worked nearby were hogging the chargers. And don't get me going on cheapskates. Many times I arrived at the arts center to see someone sitting in their Tesla M3 at one of the free chargers. I go in, provide my service which usually takes a minimum of 2 hours and come out to see that they're still there. I feel like going over and asking them if they'd work for $1.50 an hour because that's what they're "saving" by camping out at the charger.

Having available public chargers is good in that it eases the fear of being stranded if you forgot to plug in or end up using up more range than you thought you would and need to get back home. I have read that "range anxiety" is actually "charging anxiety". I would be happy to see more local L3 chargers owned and operated by the public utilities. This is the way to encourage EV use by those who want to travel a distance at times. These could be run at cost so there would be no drawing of tax funds for operation. If local businesses want to have free charging on their premises it's their choice.

I agree that “Free charging” incentivizes bad behavior. People who pass initiatives like that don’t actually understand human behavior.

Like I said, I think that the only infrastructure that actually matters at this point is DCFC. I totally agree with charging anxiety. It’s why I haven’t bought an EV yet. I travel a bit for work and the town I travel to the most doesn’t have any DCFC conveniently nearby. I could probably make the drive to and from there in warmer seasons, but I don’t know about the cold. (Level 3 is DCFC Direct Current Fast Charging).

 

[marshall]

I think to get the ball rolling you need government support. I am in favor of adding a 5 to 10 dollar a year tax on EVs to help get the ball rolling. However in most states there isn't enough EVs to tax and will need some money out of the general transportation funding for a few years.

At some point, EVs will be able to stand on their own. So I don't see government funding as being unlimited.

 

[Calliope]

The quickest way to get charging infrastructure built in apartment complex parking lots is to increase EV sales overall. The best way to increase EV sales overall is to increase the number of DCFC locations across the country.

I think the solution is the exact opposite - the best way to increase EV sales is to increase the number of L2 chargers near where people live. People shopping and researching EVs are told time and time again not to use L3 chargers for all their charging needs, because it can heat up the battery too much and can decrease the lifespan of the battery. Now, some people realize that the battery will still outlive the lifespan of the other car parts, but the science about L3 charging is right: L3 charging frequently is bad for battery health, and so convincing someone that they should spend more to buy an EV and then mistreat the battery is going to be a hard sell. Additionally, most people aren't willing to spend an hour plus sitting in their car once or twice a week like I am while their car charges, especially if it means that's time spent away from their families. Can you imagine trying to sell an ICE car that way: "Buy this car, and you only need to spend 2.5 hours a week filling it up." It would be like telling them that their commute just got 20 minutes a day longer. (time is longer than the actual charging time, to allow for travel to and from that L3 charger from home or work.)