Bolt Top Speed

[Cypress]

... GM didn't consider the coefficient of drag to be that important, and that is one of several indications that -- again -- they designed the Bolt EV to be primarily a city car...”

Maybe you don’t understand engineering. It’s always a trade. They optimized interior volume, cargo space, head room, ease of entry over a few more miles of highway range. If they were truly going to design a city car, they would have only put 40kWh of batteries in or less. It is clearly designed as a good multipurpose car.

When people compare to the X for aero, I say that Tesla sacrificed too much to the aero gods for that car. It looks like crap, and the usefulness as an CUV is limited because of the sloping and narrow back end.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

If they were truly going to design a city car, they would have only put 40kWh of batteries in or less. It is clearly designed as a good multipurpose car.

Well, why don't you write to those writing articles for Edmunds.com and Green Car Reports and Cheat Sheet.com and Jalopnik and all those other sites with articles calling the Bolt EV a "city car", and tell them they're wrong? I want to be fly on the wall when they read your e-mail; I'm sure they'll be quite amused.

* * * * *

I'm getting just a bit tired of people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about here. If y'all disagree, if y'all don't think the Bolt EV should be called a "city car", then you are all entitled to your opinions. But telling me that my opinion is uninformed or ignorant... you're just revealing your own lack of understanding of the issues. Not only do I think the guys who write auto reviews for Edmunds.com know more than I do about automobiles, I think they know more than you do. But if you want to argue with them, then I'll happily get out of the way and let you do so.

 

[Cypress]

I agree with the author of the article. It is a great city car. It’s just much more than that. You seem to be of the opinion it is only valuable as a city car.

There are plenty of other opinion pieces that say it’s a good car, period, without caveat of being restricted to the confines of urban life.

My Spark EV with 80miles of range and no DCFC is a city car, the Bolt is at the very least a regional car.

Sorry if your ego is so fragile, you can’t admit when you are wrong.

 

[Domenick]

Just a reminder: Please don't make personal attacks or insults. Stick to attacking arguments.

Regarding the question at hand, some people consider the Bolt a city car, others do not. Nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, so let's just try to avoid taking those differences personally.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Sorry if your ego is so fragile, you can’t admit when you are wrong.

When I'm wrong, I'll not only admit it, but thank the person who corrected me.

I'm sorry you are too immature to carry on an adult discussion and fact-based debate. I'm not interested in exchanging insults; I'll leave that to you.

 

[Cypress]

When I'm wrong, I'll not only admit it, but thank the person who corrected me.

I'm sorry you are too immature to carry on an adult discussion and fact-based debate. I'm not interested in exchanging insults; I'll leave that to you.

You are the one that tried to imply my knowledge of the automobile market was lacking due to my opinion on the Bolt. Or that I am somehow ignorant or misinformed. I took that somewhat as a a personal attack and responded in kind. My apologies if insulting me was not your intent.

 

[rgmichel]

Well, I admit I started this bit of an argument by disagreeing with Pushmi-Pullyu on the "city car" description of the Bolt EV, but the tenor of this continuing discussion is now preventing other sensible discussion, so I suggest we just stop it all now, and move on.

 

[Cypress]

...given the consensus or near-consensus from various auto reviewers that it is a city car...

I disagree that there is any kind of consensus by auto-reviewers. I've read car and driver, jalopnik, autoweek, motortrend, etc, and they do not refer to the Bolt as a city a car. Just a good car.

...In fact, I'm amused at the varying descriptions, from "compact SUV" to "subcompact hatchback" to even, bizarrely, "small wagon", for the Bolt EV. I find equally amusing the arguments over whether it is "really" a compact or a mid-sized car....

Yeah, it's a hard vehicle to categorize. Small on the outside, large on the inside. Like a tardis. The EPA does classify it as a "small wagon", so not sure why you find that bizarre. But if it was classified like the VW Golf as a sedan, it would fit their "mid-size" criteria, which is based on interior passenger volume.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Well, I admit I started this bit of an argument by disagreeing with Pushmi-Pullyu on the "city car" description of the Bolt EV, but the tenor of this continuing discussion is now preventing other sensible discussion, so I suggest we just stop it all now, and move on.

Thank you. If there is anything more pointless than exchanging insults, it's arguing over who started a fight. I bear part of the blame for escalating the tension into a full-blown exchange of insults, so mea culpa.

Let us please return to discussing the issues, not the personalities.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

The EPA does classify it as a "small wagon", so not sure why you find that bizarre.

To me a "station wagon" means a sedan form factor stretched out in the back to give more cargo room, and a "fifth door" or tailgate. It's taking the "three box" form factor of a sedan, and eliminating the third box by stretching out the second box. Technically, the traditional station wagon also does not have a hatchback style rear door, altho that may well have changed in more recent decades.

More detail here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_wagon

The Bolt EV doesn't fit that form factor. It's not a variant on a sedan, and it doesn't have anything remotely like a sedan's "first box" shape, as well as having a hatchback rear door rather than a tail gate.

Just my opinion! If you have a different opinion, that's fine.

 

[Domenick]

Yeah, I don't see how they get wagon from the Bolt. To me, at least, it's a hatchback. Since it's so short, I'd call it sub-compact, but I'd need to do some reading to see if its higher roof (and therefore more interior volume) puts it into compact territory.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

To me, at least, it's a hatchback.

That's what I'd call it too.

Since it's so short, I'd call it sub-compact, but I'd need to do some reading to see if its higher roof (and therefore more interior volume) puts it into compact territory.

There have been a lot of comments -- dare I call that a consensus? -- that GM has done a superior job of maximizing interior volume based on exterior volume. Based on exterior volume it's perhaps a largish subcompact, but based on interior volume it's at least a compact, and possibly even into smallish mid-sized territory.

As Cypress said: "Small on the outside, large on the inside. Like a tardis."

 

[Twisted_Leads]

On a side note, my 2002 Hayabusa is easily tricked into exceeding its electronically limited top speed of 186 mph, by telling the engine computer that the motorcycle is only in 5th gear (not 6th). The ECU only pulls timing in 6th gear at a certain (high) rpm, thus limiting top speed. Could a similar strategy be employed with the Bolt or are modern systems more sophisticated/complicated to hack?

Let's discuss.

I would enjoy discussion about electric motorcycles in this forum

 

[Domenick]

I would enjoy discussion about electric motorcycles in this forum

We have a thread called "Electric Motorcycles!" you should check out. At this point it's mostly posts with some of the main, available motorcycles, but I, for one, am always ready to talk about them.

 

[HVACman]

GM engineers published their design decisions in an SAE paper last year. They did an optimization process for axle ratio, which would affect the top vehicle speed available given the motor's red-line RPM. 6:1 would have given highest top-end speed. 9:1 would have been Tesla-like launch speed. The went 7.05:1 to optimize range, with very good passing acceleration and acceptable launch acceleration and grade climbing. See graph below from the paper.

 

[Cypress]

GM engineers published their design decisions in an SAE paper last year. They did an optimization process for axle ratio, which would affect the top vehicle speed available given the motor's red-line RPM. 6:1 would have given highest top-end speed. 9:1 would have been Tesla-like launch speed. The went 7.05:1 to optimize range, with very good passing acceleration and acceptable launch acceleration and grade climbing. See graph below from the paper.

Great chart! Thanks for publishing it.

 

[Tim Miser]

I'm curious what a "City car" is? Where is this defined? I'm aware of car classes that have defined parameters such as how you choose a car size at a rental car company but I just am not so sure I know what defines a city car? As far as an EV goes, I would assume a city car would be anything with 50 miles or less of range. Maybe under 100 miles at the max? How can an EV with over 200 mile range be even remotely called a "City Car"?