Big Price drop
- Thread starter MacMini34
- Start date
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A year ago, the Prologue was outselling its platform-mate, the Blazer EV. The precipitous drop in Prologue sales likely prompted Honda to abandon EVs (look, I didn't write "pull the plug"), despite spending billions developing the two Honda 0 EVs, the Acura RSX SUV, the Sony-Honda Afeela, and spending still more to create an EV manufacturing hub in Ohio to make those EVs.
I'm expecting (OK, hoping), the US EV industry will bounce back in 1,022 days (as of April 3, 2026).
Some thoughts, and not getting political...
- You can't mandate profitability.
- The emissions (2035 cafe) standard was too aggressive. This led to a rush in EV programs without proper foresight or planning by some/most. Yes, Trump revised them down - but really, Biden should have never pushed so hard so fast for an industry that moves slow to re-tool at serious cost. Auto manufacturers were forced to build things that were MVPs, not final products in many cases. This is not a political statement. This is the facts of what happened by politicians who don't understand manufacturing, tooling, assembly lines, and product development runway.
- The same thing happened in the late 70s/early 80s and we got a bunch of vehicles with no power all for the sake of meeting a gov't mandate. We can all agree the cars of that era were garbage because they didn't have enough time to engineer/plan out how to make power AND meet emissions standards AND do it profitably.
- tax breaks create unnatural demand. This can help jumpstart things, but it's never a long-term solution.
- There should have never been a rebate. It's not the government's role to fund private companies. Was there a discount on the model T so people stopped riding horses?
- Fuel prices are a driver, but electric costs have risen faster than gasoline has over the past 10 years. Couple that with the cost of the equivalent model in fuel mode is usually cheaper, and few folks look at the TCO with maintenance/etc when purchasing.
- We were just starting to see some price parity with ev/gas when they all got cancelled.
The f150 is one of the best selling vehicles for decades. With an almost 15k price point increase, it's a non-starter to even consider the EV variant for many buyers. Had they been equal, It may have stood a better chance.
Couple that with Dealers creating fake demand, raising sale prices above MSRP (as you may remember, i wanted an f150 Lightning until the dealers tacked on 20k over msrp) and ended up with a gas-job as a result.
- We were just starting to see some price parity with ev/gas when they all got cancelled.
- Charging Infrastructure in rural areas is still a challenge. Someone needs to invent a 120 charger that stores power all day when you're not plugged in and then charges at fast dc rate when it's plugged in to the car. No complex wiring, plugs into any house 15-amp outlet, and still charges the car faster than traditional level1. Overnight isn't enough, but what if it could preload energy while you're not plugged in? Maybe it could be a thing, and i'm not an electrician
Are you talking at-home infrastructure, or DC-fast charging? My in-laws are very rural Texas, and even they have a 14-50 plug for their RV. Of course, that could easily charge an EV as well. They are not the only people out their with RV's parked on their property.
Now, DC fast charging infrastructure out there really is bad. I have a ZDX, and doing a round-trip to their house is nerve wracking because of how sparse the fast charging is. If I could not borrow their 14-50 plug for a few hours I would resort to our ICE car for those trips. Fortunately there are some NEVI spots along that route that, if built out, would REALLY help that trip for us.
Regarding tax breaks, nobody ever expected the tax credit to be a long-term solution, so I find that disengious of you. It was designed to spark early demand in order to help manufacturers justify their investments. But it should have been phased out, not summarily and unpredictably dropped.
MichaelGregory
New Member
I agree somewhat with you.. However, there were several reasons for the tax credit. It was to get the US to manufacture the evs and batteries, provide jobs, and help with the environment. If evs are going to be the future (and they are) then it would be advantageous for the US to build them than letting the rest of the world take the lead. We know the ev credit policy was working. With it American factories were built, good paying jobs were created, and the air was cleaner. American ev sales were doing well. Without the tax credit American sales plummeted while China and Europe continue to produce and support evs. As an example Canada soon will be importing Chinese evs instead of American evs. On the whole the credit was good policy and was cancelled by an idiot who thinks windmills killed off the dinosaurs.Some thoughts, and not getting political...
- You can't mandate profitability.
- The emissions (2035 cafe) standard was too aggressive. This led to a rush in EV programs without proper foresight or planning by some/most. Yes, Trump revised them down - but really, Biden should have never pushed so hard so fast for an industry that moves slow to re-tool at serious cost. Auto manufacturers were forced to build things that were MVPs, not final products in many cases. This is not a political statement. This is the facts of what happened by politicians who don't understand manufacturing, tooling, assembly lines, and product development runway.
- The same thing happened in the late 70s/early 80s and we got a bunch of vehicles with no power all for the sake of meeting a gov't mandate. We can all agree the cars of that era were garbage because they didn't have enough time to engineer/plan out how to make power AND meet emissions standards AND do it profitably.
- tax breaks create unnatural demand. This can help jumpstart things, but it's never a long-term solution.
- There should have never been a rebate. It's not the government's role to fund private companies. Was there a discount on the model T so people stopped riding horses?
- Fuel prices are a driver, but electric costs have risen faster than gasoline has over the past 10 years. Couple that with the cost of the equivalent model in fuel mode is usually cheaper, and few folks look at the TCO with maintenance/etc when purchasing.
- We were just starting to see some price parity with ev/gas when they all got cancelled.View attachment 28546
The f150 is one of the best selling vehicles for decades. With an almost 15k price point increase, it's a non-starter to even consider the EV variant for many buyers. Had they been equal, It may have stood a better chance.
Couple that with Dealers creating fake demand, raising sale prices above MSRP (as you may remember, i wanted an f150 Lightning until the dealers tacked on 20k over msrp) and ended up with a gas-job as a result.- Charging Infrastructure in rural areas is still a challenge. Someone needs to invent a 120 charger that stores power all day when you're not plugged in and then charges at fast dc rate when it's plugged in to the car. No complex wiring, plugs into any house 15-amp outlet, and still charges the car faster than traditional level1. Overnight isn't enough, but what if it could preload energy while you're not plugged in? Maybe it could be a thing, and i'm not an electrician
MichaelGregory
New Member
Oops, one other thing. You stated you can't mandate profitability. You're right and that is the whole purpose of the credit. The credit was a bridge to profitability. If I remember right when Tesla started they were not profitable for years, but they were able to reach profitability with the help of tax credits given to buyers of their evs inn the early years. So then credits eventually worked.