Any outlook for large batteries (more range) for future Mini's?

BMW announced plans to develop solid state batteries and get them into production by 2030. Solid state batts have higher energy density in the same size battery space, so, in theory, that could mean more efficient battery pack replacements in the SE. But there's a lot of unknowns in what I just typed!
 
To all the comments about more range meaning a heavier, larger MINI, I have a couple of important points:
  • To put it bluntly, the current SE is a compliance car. It was not designed as an EV and many of the engineering compromises reflect this. There is a huge amount of wasted weight that could be removed with a dedicated EV chassis (for example the giant tube structure around the electronics that had to replicate the structural integrity of the combustion engine)
  • A dedicated BEV chassis can easily be smaller because of the packaging flexibility electric components allow. Currently there is a lot of wasted space in the engine bay and under the car (dual motor AWD electric JCW anyone?)
  • Batteries are rapidly improving. Even without some giant leap like solid state, the next gen MINI batteries will easily be more energy dense than the current ones. There's also mechanical advancement like cell to pack that can further reduce weight.
  • As mentioned in some other comments, the Mini is a brick. Subtle design changes can greatly improved aerodynamics without significant changes to the overall shape. ICE cars don't focus heavily on aerodynamic improvements because a the engine is so inefficient (makes the most sense to focus resources on improving combustion efficiency). A dedicated EV will be designed with drag reduction as a priority.
 
Crunching some numbers, a battery-less SE would apparently weigh about as much as a battery-less Bolt (1st edition). The Bolt, however, is 12" longer, 6" taller, and 1.5" wider. This supports the hypothesis that use of a dedicated EV platform can save an appreciable amount of weight.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Crunching some numbers, a battery-less SE would apparently weigh about as much as a battery-less Bolt (1st edition). The Bolt, however, is 12" longer, 6" taller, and 1.5" wider. This supports the hypothesis that use of a dedicated EV platform can save an appreciable amount of weight.
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And the Bolt wasn't exactly designed to be lightweight!

If MINI really tried to make a lightweight EV, I bet they could double the battery capacity and still end up lighter than the current SE
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Crunching some numbers, a battery-less SE would apparently weigh about as much as a battery-less Bolt (1st edition). The Bolt, however, is 12" longer, 6" taller, and 1.5" wider. This supports the hypothesis that use of a dedicated EV platform can save an appreciable amount of weight.
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Until batteries get much more efficient, the SE is probably the last BEV that isn't designed around a height-raising slab-style battery. I hope I'm still around when a future BEV designer configuring a sporty BEV with a super-dense high-tech battery claims a breakthrough by putting the battery under the console between the front seats and under the rear seat.
 
I disagree with categorizing the SE as a "compliance car", but it's clearly a transitional car. Compliance cars are typically minimal effort that perform mediocre at best, and MINI clearly put a lot of engineering into the SE to give it so much performance given the limitations.

As for the magical battery technologies coming along, I'll believe it when I see it. Some day in the (who knows how far) future batteries will get better, but it's nothing to hang one's hat on.

A BEV-dedicated platform will make a big difference, but if MINI had chosen that route instead of the SE we'd probably be waiting another five years to enjoy a MINI BEV and paying $10,000 more for it. I don't think MINI gets enough credit for being able to build the SE on the same assembly line as their ICE vehicles, there was no need to create a whole new assembly infrastructure.
 
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insightman said:
Until batteries get much more efficient, the SE is probably the last BEV that isn't designed around a height-raising slab-style battery. I hope I'm still around when a future BEV designer configuring a sporty BEV with a super-dense high-tech battery claims a breakthrough by putting the battery under the console between the front seats and under the rear seat.
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Interesting question. Which would have a lower CG - A) a skateboard platform that is slightly higher off the ground to protect the battery, or B) a design in which ground clearance is unchanged but the batteries are tucked here and there at a somewhat higher height?

Given that batteries are really dense, I would argue A, i.e., it's better to keep them as low as possible even if it means raising the rest of the car.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Interesting question. Which would have a lower CG - A) a skateboard platform that is slightly higher off the ground to protect the battery, or B) a design in which ground clearance is unchanged but the batteries are tucked here and there at a somewhat higher height?

Given that batteries are really dense, I would argue A, i.e., it's better to keep them as low as possible even if it means raising the rest of the car.
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You might be right, but I'll trade a few centimeters of CoG for better looks.
 
Carsten Haase said:
And the Bolt wasn't exactly designed to be lightweight!

If MINI really tried to make a lightweight EV, I bet they could double the battery capacity and still end up lighter than the current SE
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Based on the stated weight of the Bolt battery pack (960 lbs), that would require reducing the weight of everything else by about 500 lbs. In turn, that implies they could build an ICE version* weighing around 2500 lbs (+200 for the ICE engine and transmission vs. the electric drivetrain along with -500 in weight savings vs. the F series). That seems a bit of a stretch. However, use of a dedicated EV platform might still enable increasing the battery size by a significant amount without increasing the weight, even if it can't be doubled.

Give me 200 hp and ~40-45 kWh at the current weight, and I'd be a very happy camper.
 
insightman said:
You might be right, but I'll trade a few centimeters of CoG for better looks.
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Sideskirts to make the car appear lower and improve aerodynamics, while still keeping the battery high enough off the ground?

(Maybe that's what's still missing from the 4th gen model, such that the frame rails/battery pack is visible.)
 
insightman said:
Until batteries get much more efficient, the SE is probably the last BEV that isn't designed around a height-raising slab-style battery. I hope I'm still around when a future BEV designer configuring a sporty BEV with a super-dense high-tech battery claims a breakthrough by putting the battery under the console between the front seats and under the rear seat.
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The future is now! This is essentially how Rimac designed the battery for their latest car. This shape is optimized to keep the weight low and central without compromising the driving position.

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Rimac has a very technical YouTube channel with their CEO/founder going over the entire design and development of the car in multiple in depth videos. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the technical challenges of EV development.
 
insightman said:
You might be right, but I'll trade a few centimeters of CoG for better looks.
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Not just looks, but driver position. I much prefer to sit as low as possible. It gives the driver a much better sense of connection to the road, which is part of the whole experience of driving a sporty car in the first place.
 
The BMW i3 was made largely out of carbon fiber to make it lighter, whereas the SE is a standard steel body. It could partly explain why the i3 cost over $10,000 more than the SE, even though the electric parts are very similar. There's the saying, "good, fast, cheap – pick two." MINI's kind of doing the same thing by balancing cost, range, and handling.
 
joshf2k said:
Especially in the US where we don't have other smaller EV options like the ID.3, Honda E, etc. Bolt is nice, but no one's buying those for a while. Everything else available is just so big.
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I agree. That’s what steered me towards the Mini, which is a car I never would have dreamed of buying the ICE version of. I don’t do city driving much, but I do a lot of winding country roads up/down the foothills. I am coming from a Bolt and I can’t go back to a bigger vehicle plus I love one pedal driving on those types of roads. I think Mini will keep producing the current style mini, maybe change the pack chemistry some to squeeze out more range.
 
insightman said:
I was amazed to see how the current MINI compares to the size of the original Mustang. The Mustang is longer, but it's only 0.2 inches wider and much lower. My SE is the largest car I've ever purchased for my personal use (our Honda Clarity is much larger).

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MINI keeps saying they'd like to reduce the size of their smallest car, but that would work against electrification. In 2019, Inside EVs repeated Autocar's claim that the tiny Rocketman (see below) would begin coming off MINI's production line in 2022, but there's no indication that's going to happen.

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Hey that is my Mini and my neighbors Mustang !!! Love that pic and both those cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
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