Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Disagree, anything above 24kW is acceptable. Heat and tapering.
2019 Leaf "e-Plus" (60kWh)
- Thread starter Kenneth Bokor
- Start date
- Replies 120
- Views 70K
Disagree, anything above 24kW is acceptable. Heat and tapering.
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Ok, just posted my Review Episode on the Leaf Plus. Check it out for lots of details!
Thanks, very interesting. Things I noticed:
- The range display seems to account for terrain now, it's not just concentric circles.
- Still got the big retro speedo :-(
- No rapidgate but also rather limited charge speeds, 55kW max, often much less.
Question: How was the ProPilot system?
- The range display seems to account for terrain now, it's not just concentric circles.
- Still got the big retro speedo :-(
- No rapidgate but also rather limited charge speeds, 55kW max, often much less.
Question: How was the ProPilot system?
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Hi, 55kW was on the Ultra Fast 100kW Charger. Actually it hit 56kW. So while a bit disappointing, like I said not sure if that is the true case. I think there is an issue with the Petro Canada Charger as the Plus is so new, they may have not worked out the comm protocols yet.
Everything else on the 50kW Chargers was really good IMO.
ProPilot to me, is exactly the same as on the 40kW. E-Pedal is tuned and calibrated a bit for the extra weight and power, so to me it's just a tad more finessed.
Binnacle Cluster is same yes. If you want a digital speedo, it has that option to select.
Yes, I thought the same about the range estimator in Nav as it seems to be very good, so must take terrain into consideration.
I think if I get one I'd want to add a HUD for speed. The original Leaf speedo was one of the best features, huge loss to take that away.
I'm also wondering if it will get the new hands-off ProPilot later this year. It's shipping on the Skyline now. It seems to rely on HD maps though, so probably won't be available outside of Japan until they have scanned countries.
I'm also wondering if it will get the new hands-off ProPilot later this year. It's shipping on the Skyline now. It seems to rely on HD maps though, so probably won't be available outside of Japan until they have scanned countries.
Hmm, I guess people forgot how to look to see how fast they were going before having digital speedometers.
Hmm, I guess people forgot how to look to see how fast they were going before having digital speedometers.
Have you driven a Leaf? In fact any EV... being so quiet and having so little feedback for speed, an easily visible speedo in your eyeline is very handy. It's not like a fossil where you get feedback from the engine noise or the gears/torque. But generally speaking all cars would benefit from something like that. A lot are getting HUDs now with the speed displayed.
The IC in the new Leaf is, frankly, crap. A car costing that much should be a lot better. The nav screen isn't great either, just okay. In many ways the interior is a downgrade from the old one.
I guess you missed the joke about the new Leafs having an analog speedometer.
In the video?
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
While I agree in EVs being very quiet, I don't agree the Gen 2 Leaf IC is crappy. There is a menu selection for a digital speedo if you want it. The analogue is fixed and I for one am old school and quite like it.
It's hard to say how bad it is yet. The fact that it still happens is worrying. When the Leaf 40 came out people had real trouble in the summer, hit by it on the first charge.
The Leaf is fairly inefficient too, so while the WLTP range is 240 miles if you do motorway speeds it will be more like 200 at best, maybe 180.
The Leaf is fairly inefficient too, so while the WLTP range is 240 miles if you do motorway speeds it will be more like 200 at best, maybe 180.
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Yes, this test is an extreme but the initial pull speeds is interesting. In my recent video from earlier this week, I rapid charged 3 times in a 500km journey and each time my starting pull from the 50kW EVSE was 43-45kW. Only got down to 38-37kW when I reached 80% SoC. Outside Temps were not as hot as this German test, but were 21-23 Degrees C ranges.
All my starting SoC's were 44-54%, as I did not get the battery down too low in my testing due to time limitations for me.
I'm wondering if these Germans have an early production with a BMS hiccup? That's a big discrepancy. Also, I find over 105/110kph speeds will eat up range much faster as it takes more energy to pass a certain speed then it is used up exponentially. This is similar for all BEVs just they have different thresholds. So not inefficiency.
I'll have to see some other reviews and data as I am sure my UK friends will test a Plus as will others. Certainly, due to the more range, the Plus won't need to be charged as much as the 40kW version on the same journey, but to only pull 24kW at the end of the second charge on the first day is interesting. Too bad he does not show LSP data on the day 2 first charge when the IC did not show any charging data. He did not state his starting pull rate for that charge session.
We all know after 80% tapering occurs so to judge speeds past that is not realistic. It would have been nice for these Leaf "pros" to have done a proper summary of the data and not just throw random figures out here and there during the testing. If you are going to go thru that much trouble and time to test, you should be more prepared to document the data and present it. If you look at my recent Leaf Plus Review on my EV Revolution Show Channel on YouTube, you will see my info clearly. The only error I made was stating efficiency at 6.7/6.3km/100 kWh when it is actually per kWh.
But how much did you actually add? Sorry I didn't make a note from the video, but for a 500km journey at low speeds you would need what, 50% additional charge? Spread over three sessions.
Also you were charging from a 50kW charger. Nissan showed a Leaf hitting 100kW a while back. This issue is only going to be worse on higher speed chargers.
If it's anything like the 40 it's due to the ambient temperature. The system isn't that clever, it just seems to look at the pack temperature and the ambient and then pick a low charge rate based on that.
It is in the case of the Leaf. At 100 kph and upwards it gets much worse energy consumption than other similar size EVs like the Niro and Kona. It's just not a very aerodynamic shape, and the drivetrain isn't very optimized for those kinds of speeds either.
Remember that it's a fairly old platform now, basically the same as the original 2010 model. With the rapid development of EV tech it's really showing its age.
I agree. I think we can rely on Bjorn to give us some hard data and a proper test, although Norway is rather cold even in the summer.
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Hi all valid points. My driving was more then 50% as I took the pack down 40% or so each trip then rapid back up to 80-ish. But my numbers are no where near the Germans findings.
Could be ambient temp as mine was about 10 Degrees C lower.
I did charge a test charge at a 100kW but that was not the day of the trip, so you are correct.
This is disappointing if it holds up to not be an early production glitch or software issue. We will have to keep our eyes on this and see more data comes out.
Albeit, both Leaf's are great cars for the right applications and I hope the Plus is still a valid choice for longer range trips. However, pulling under 20kW for a 62kW pack is unacceptable after only 2 charges - if this data holds.
It's a nice car overall. I'm trying to decide between one and a Niro. I pre-ordered the Niro back in January and it is due to delivery soon. The downgrades to the UK version, especially the lack of telematics/app, really soured it for me. I used that app every day with my 24 and 30 kWh Leafs. Is that the right plural?
Kenneth Bokor
Active Member
Hi yes that is fine!
The Kia Niro EV is a great all-around BEV and based on what I've seen so far (have not driven one yet), I would think you will be set with that. If your vast majority of daily driving needs is well within what the Niro or Leaf Plus offer, then it's a more personal preference for you (exterior size, interior size and fit/ergonomics, etc.). You certainly can't go wrong with any active thermal management solution for Battery Management and that is where the Kia should shine. Best of luck!