2019 Leaf "e-Plus" (60kWh)

I have a 2019 Leaf SV Plus. I have done 2 full battery runs in 2 successive days at 34C (95 F) across Illinois and Iowa last weekend. I only used Chademo in one direction (I had an event in the middle on the way out), but was able to fill at 53KW for most of a charge on the way home (EA chargers will run just above 50KW here). I was eating/away for the 70%-90% part of the charge, so didn't watch how fast the charge rate declined towards the end. As its rarely this hot (<5-10 days a year) in the upper mid west, so thermal issues aren't too much of a worry for me, but believe active batter thermal mgmt is likely better. The Niro and Kona are not available here. I didn't know they were de-optioniing the car in other locations. The Leaf is still substantially cheaper then the SR+ Model 3, as you can get a fully loaded SV for around 30K after federal rebate...25K in some US states and cities with additional programs.
 
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One addition. My first leg was 220 miles all highway at 100 - 105 Kph (60-65 MPH), which the car did with ease. I ended with 10% capacity remaining.
 
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Some data from the run presented by Cleantechnica: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/07/0...-leaf-suffers-from-rapidgate-on-longer-trips/

JEDAO9e.png


Based on that 100kW would require the battery to be down at 10C, and realistically anything much over 50kW is going to be difficult after a motorway journey.

That's in the EU, in the US it's even worse because you guys don't have the software fix so are stuck on the red line.

This is very disappointing because even on the very first charge you are unlikely to get 70kW like you would in a Kona or Niro. #rapidgate is still alive and well it seems.
 
Well, seems data coming in is very mixed at this point. I would not judge the Leaf Plus by just one test (the German use case - it was a first production variant so there could be an issue with it). As you can read from real owners, they are not experiencing this kind of throttling nor did I in my Review and testing, although I have not put it thru the longer drive test that NextMove did.

Jury is still out so don't be so fast to crucify Nissan.
 
This is very disappointing because even on the very first charge you are unlikely to get 70kW like you would in a Kona or Niro. #rapidgate is still alive and well it seems.
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Here was my last Chademo Session. I pulled up with 12% on the dash and the battery above 90F.

Thank you for charging with Electrify America.
Assistance: 1-833-632-2778
07/28/2019 08:57:49 PM
Lincolnwood Town Center
3333 W Touhy Ave.
Lincolnwood, Illinois 60712
Charger #200014-01
Connector #2
Total paid: $6.07
Session ID: 35142
Charging pricing: $1.00/session + $0.25/minute (pre-tax)
Charging cost: $6.07
Discount: $0.00
Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min)
Sales tax (0%): $0.00
End state of charge: 50%
Total energy delivered: 22.1 kWh
Max charging rate: 73.29 kW
Charging time: 00:20:17
Grace period: 00:10 min
Paid idle time: 00:00

I only had 20 minutes so will try another charge some other time when very low again.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Here was my last Chademo Session. I pulled up with 12% on the dash and the battery above 90F.

Thank you for charging with Electrify America.
Assistance: 1-833-632-2778
07/28/2019 08:57:49 PM
Lincolnwood Town Center
3333 W Touhy Ave.
Lincolnwood, Illinois 60712
Charger #200014-01
Connector #2
Total paid: $6.07
Session ID: 35142
Charging pricing: $1.00/session + $0.25/minute (pre-tax)
Charging cost: $6.07
Discount: $0.00
Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min)
Sales tax (0%): $0.00
End state of charge: 50%
Total energy delivered: 22.1 kWh
Max charging rate: 73.29 kW
Charging time: 00:20:17
Grace period: 00:10 min
Paid idle time: 00:00

I only had 20 minutes so will try another charge some other time when very low again.
Click to expand...

Wow max charge rate over 70kWh...does not look like Rapidgate to me!
 
Kenneth Bokor said:
Wow max charge rate over 70kWh...does not look like Rapidgate to me!
Click to expand...

Depends how long you can sustain it and if it is available on the 2nd charge of the day.

Overall I'd say that the car doesn't have a major issue with heat, it's just that it doesn't charge all that fast even under perfect conditions.
 
I've got a few updates from North American Leaf e+ owners now and they are all very happy with the fast charging behaviour of this model Leaf. Reports indicate a good pull of 55kW or so up to about 70-80% where it will taper down to mid-30'skW. No reports like the NEXT guys in Europe had. Just fyi, the owners I am communicating with are very pleased with the e+.
 
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55kW isn't great, and in Bjorn's tests he struggles to get more than 40kW from most chargers. Well over an hour to go from 10-80%.

He's doing a 1000km test and it's not going well. Hammered by rapidgate, it's taken over 9 hours to do 550km so far.



In his earlier range test he got some uninspiring results:



Summer 75 MPH = 159 miles
Summer 56 MPH = 230 miles
Usable capcity: 56kWh

As expected the Leaf is very inefficient at motorway speed. He also observed a 0.3C/kWh heating rate during charging at 40kW, which means one charge is enough to hit rapidgate and the next one will be around 22kW, which is what he is getting now with his 1000km test.

In fact the Leaf 62 is actually looking slower over 500+km than something like a Hyundai Ioniq with 35kWh battery, simply due to low charge speeds/rapidgate.

This wouldn't be so bad if the Leaf e+ wasn't so very expensive. It's Tesla money for a car that doesn't perform as well as an old Ioniq you can pick up for a fraction of the price.
 
comadose said:
55kW isn't great, and in Bjorn's tests he struggles to get more than 40kW from most chargers. Well over an hour to go from 10-80%.

He's doing a 1000km test and it's not going well. Hammered by rapidgate, it's taken over 9 hours to do 550km so far.



In his earlier range test he got some uninspiring results:



Summer 75 MPH = 159 miles
Summer 56 MPH = 230 miles
Usable capcity: 56kWh

As expected the Leaf is very inefficient at motorway speed. He also observed a 0.3C/kWh heating rate during charging at 40kW, which means one charge is enough to hit rapidgate and the next one will be around 22kW, which is what he is getting now with his 1000km test.

In fact the Leaf 62 is actually looking slower over 500+km than something like a Hyundai Ioniq with 35kWh battery, simply due to low charge speeds/rapidgate.

This wouldn't be so bad if the Leaf e+ wasn't so very expensive. It's Tesla money for a car that doesn't perform as well as an old Ioniq you can pick up for a fraction of the price.
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I am aware of this testing. However, unless you fall into this need of 1000km of daily driving or very frequent, then don't buy a Leaf. Look at other options.

Of course for millions of potential EV buyers don't fall into this need, then the Leaf and Leaf Plus are very capable BEVs and I stand by my statements that they are great cars and good choices for many. So as "uninspiring" as you comment Leaf Testing Results to be, for millions the Leaf is very inspiring! It's all perspective and don't count out the Leaf because its not the best option for continuous long distance driving.
 
Kenneth Bokor said:
I am aware of this testing. However, unless you fall into this need of 1000km of daily driving or very frequent, then don't buy a Leaf. Look at other options.
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The issue is that there is a fairly small window where the e+ 62kWh makes sense. You need more range than a 40 can get with one rapid charge per day, but less than a 62 with two rapid charges per day. And you also have really bad CCS options but decent CHAdeMO chargers in that area, because otherwise you might as well save yourself many thousands of dollars/Euros and just buy a much cheaper EV.

Bjorn did a 1000km test in an Ioniq and found it was significantly faster than the Leaf 62 simply because it could charge fast and not constantly overheat. It's 29kWh battery is less than half the size of the Leaf's.

This could have been a great long range EV where you really don't have to think about charging or planning your trips, if they had just added some cooling to the battery. In fact a Leaf 40 with battery cooling would likely be a much better car than the 62.
 
If you live in a state with a substantial state rebate, its an amazing deal to get a basic leaf.

30K - 3,500 Utility - 7,500 Federal - 5,000 State (ex CO) = 14K + taxes and delivery...assuming no other negotiation. I have heard rumors as low as 13K for the base Leaf, making it cheaper than the cheapest Versa.

For a Plus model, the Utility rebate is lower, so your math is: 36,500 - 7,500 Federal - 2,500 Utility - 5,000 state = 22K... I sadly do not live in a state with a state rebate, so for my SV+ with tech package, weather package, and few options was 30K + Tax. More expensive than a Versa, but still felt like a reasonable deal. 10K less than the SR+ with almost no options.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
If you live in a state with a substantial state rebate, its an amazing deal to get a basic leaf.

30K - 3,500 Utility - 7,500 Federal - 5,000 State (ex CO) = 14K + taxes and delivery...assuming no other negotiation. I have heard rumors as low as 13K for the base Leaf, making it cheaper than the cheapest Versa.

For a Plus model, the Utility rebate is lower, so your math is: 36,500 - 7,500 Federal - 2,500 Utility - 5,000 state = 22K... I sadly do not live in a state with a state rebate, so for my SV+ with tech package, weather package, and few options was 30K + Tax. More expensive than a Versa, but still felt like a reasonable deal. 10K less than the SR+ with almost no options.
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Do you know off-hand which utility offers this much off? I mean, you would think everyone and their uncle in that area would be buying LEAFs with deals like that
 
I think the problem is that its not well understood by the general public. I don't live in Colorado, but have heard of dealers with 40 Leafs on their lots for quick sale.

If you search google, you will quickly find a bunch of links. Here is just one of them. I bought my under a work VPP program, about a month prior to the rebate program. Still it was 2K under invoice, which sounds pretty reasonable.

https://www.publicpower.org/public-...on agencies and,the rebate for fleet vehicles.
 
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