Tapping or Creaking Noise when coasting at low speed

Discussion in 'Kia Niro' started by wizziwig, Jun 8, 2019.

Do you hear the same noise?

  1. Yes, I hear the same noise

    31 vote(s)
    70.5%
  2. No, I don't hear the noise

    13 vote(s)
    29.5%
  1. wizziwig

    wizziwig Active Member

    Decided to reply in this thread to stay on topic. Thanks for checking the motor revision. That matches what I personally saw on a 2020 a few weeks back and what all 2020 owners I questioned found on their cars. In case anyone is wondering, these are not old inventory motors. They were manufactured very recently as can be seen from the date code on the motors. I assume the 2020 motor you saw was also recently built? (I posted decoder diagram previously and attached again below).

    niro_motor_number.jpg

    I forgot to post my 2020 sighting in this thread so here is a repost from a couple weeks ago:

     
    Andre Laurence likes this.
  2. These repairs come up enough (and cost them enough money) to take notice, and Kia still uses the same part number. This means Kia does not believe the motor design is the problem. It might a motor production problem or it might be an assembly problem or design problem in some other part that is the root of this issue.
     
  3. Thank you for the information. When I first saw your reply I thought I had posted my video in this thread by mistake!!!
     
    Andrew Le likes this.
  4. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    So, I took my Niro into the Dealer yesterday. In 30 seconds, the Tech told me I needed a new motor. A new motor is ordered and I will have it installed once it arrives. Very pleased with Kia's handling of this.
     
    Mattsburgh and Andre Laurence like this.
  5. mf989

    mf989 Member

    Kia hasn't handled it that well as they have provided no indication as to the reason for the failure and no assurance the it won't happen again, even with the new PN it is unclear if a change is specific to this issue. The unfortunate thing about it is that replacing a motor is not a trivial shop activity, even in an electric car. A factory line assembly is much higher quality/reliability than Ex-Factory shop rework. They have to drain all the coolant and disconnect a bunch of lines from the heat pump, discharge the AirCond and disconnect, etc.
     
    Andrew Le likes this.
  6. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    That's fair; however, I have not heard of anyone with the newer motor complaining about the noises. I heard these noises basically from km 100 - 30,000.

    I also agree re: the work to install a motor is not simple and more fail-safes are probably implemented at the factory-level. The only peace of mind I have is that the Techs at my dealership have both done at least one replacement of a Niro EV motor.
     
    Andre Laurence and Esprit1st like this.
  7. wizziwig

    wizziwig Active Member

    At this point KIA must be very familiar with this problem so I would expect new cases to be handled quicker.

    I've seen at least two reports of people with a replacement motors developing the noise problem again on their Niro or Kona. Unfortunately, these cars are mostly sold in non-english-speaking countries so it's difficult to get any details from the owners regarding motor revisions.

    Replacing the motor is probably the most difficult and most expensive (following tracking battery) component of the car. You need to disconnect the gearbox, inverter, drain oil, drain coolant, disconnect a bunch of hoses and cables, etc. Precise alignment of motor and gearbox is also critical and may be the root cause of the problem appearing on some cars. The labor costs half as much as the actual $6K part. Gearbox could be another $3K + labor.

    I agree with mf989 and don't think KIA and Hyundai have handled this well at all. Many owners waited months for repairs. All details are kept quiet and they are not telling anyone what's really going on. In some cases they are not even bothering to repair and just offering refunds. Very strange. For an issue this common (easily in the hundreds of cars across the globe) there needs to be an official TSB or recall. Without those, you will be screwed once warranty runs out. At this point I would only recommend leasing. Depreciation on EVs is too high to sell before warranty runs out and it's not worth the risk to keep out-of-warranty with the current track record of unreliable drivetrains. Resale values will also drop if this problem continues to spread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  8. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    Motor is getting replaced tomorrow. Fingers crossed for a smooth process and resolved clicking!
     
    Andrew Le likes this.
  9. wizziwig

    wizziwig Active Member

    Moving discussion to the correct thread.
    With such low mileage, was your 2019 Niro recently produced or just sat around not being used for a long time? You can find out the date motor was produced from a diagram I linked a few posts back. There is also a date code for entire car on label inside door frame (driver's side in USA).

    Unfortunately, I also found out about this issue too late because I was one of the first USA owners. All the complaints were piling up for months on international non-English-speaking Kona/Niro forums where they were released much earlier. Had I seen those posts, I never would have purchased and leased instead. Or maybe looked for something else that isn't a science experiment. Does any EV satisfy that requirement at this early stage of development? At least Tesla warns you right in their UI that you're driving a beta car.
     
  10. bubzki

    bubzki New Member

    Add me to the pile of people with the noise. 2019 Niro EV with about 700 miles. Will ask for 711 motor straightaway. Pretty disappointing as I bought this precisely to have a reliable, don't-think-about-it daily driver.

    Edit: I will investigate the production date. Yes, this car apparently had sat for quite a while as it was a new 2019 sold in mid 2020.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
    Andrew Le likes this.
  11. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    My Niro is in the shop and was supposed to have its new motor in by now but apparently a bolt broke and they don't have any in-stock and they have to put a special order to get it in. FML
     
    Andrew Le likes this.
  12. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    Got my 711 installed today. Noise is gone. Although now I hear noises that I never heard before on the highway, but I suspect that they are just noises that were previously overshadowed by the high-frequency clicking!

    In any event, I'm content with my replacement and I hope I don't have to go back for another warranty repair! Really impressed with how quickly my dealer was able to sort me out (Abbotsford, BC).
     
    Andrew Le likes this.
  13. ITown

    ITown Member

    I saw posts about this issue before buying the car. I decided to take a gamble that the car would not have the issue, or that the issue would be fixable under warranty. Since the drive train warranty lasts for 10 years, it feels like a reasonable gamble.

    BTW, not sure how leasing would have helped in your situation given that you began experiencing issues prior to the time when a 3 year lease would have expired.
     
  14. Lektrons

    Lektrons Member

    I'm going to West Coast Kia on Tuesday, my Kia has been making this noise the whole time. What do you tell them or is there anything I should say?
     
  15. Kia Guy

    Kia Guy Member

    @Lektrons quite honestly, I scheduled an appointment because I heard an odd noise from my motor compartment. I got in a car with a Tech, said I was quite concerned about a noise. Before we got out of the parking lot, he said I needed a motor replacement.

    The noise was subtle and I was doubtful that he would even hear it. I think quite a lot of Kia/Hyundai Technicians are becoming aware of this issue.
     
  16. Let's hope that is the case and not that you were only lucky to get a good mechanic/technician.
     
  17. wizziwig

    wizziwig Active Member

    At least with a lease you're not stuck eating the depreciation which will be even worse than other EVs if this becomes a common "known issue" with these cars. You can walk away after 3 years and let it become someone else's headache if the problem keeps coming back.

    What do you plan on doing once your 10 year (or 100,000 miles) warranty runs out?
     
  18. I appreciate your point that if Niro/Kona EVs have a bad reliability reputation we as owners will financially suffer but I think its a little overstated. Generally lease payments are projected around depreciation(which is exponentially worse during the typically term, commonly based around a 40-50% residual after 3 year) and the interest on that depreciation amount over whatever term you decide. If you are referring to as I suspect the continued financial loss related to depreciation on residual value after a typical lease term sure it will significant but honestly based on percentage depreciation the best ICE car will be similar, i.e. they are all terrible after 5 years For example here in Canada the projected 5 year residual value on a new Honda Civic is around 32% and Kona EV is projected at 26%, neither are anything to be proud of. Basically if you bought your EV you ate around 75% of your purchase price in depreciation over 5 years , if you leased your in your second 36 month term and have equally eaten the same amount(likely more) in depreciation built into your lease.

    Essentially after 5 years you really don't have that much more residual value to loose with any vehicle, so if the Kona EV is worth a few thousand less than a similar used and spec out Model 3 then, whatever. No matter what Elon says there is no way a mechanically and electronically clapped out Model 3 is go be an appreciating asset even with the addition of level 5 self driving autonomy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    ITown likes this.
  19. Lektrons

    Lektrons Member

    Thanks, I can always make an appointment at your dealer if they give me a hard time.
     
  20. bubzki

    bubzki New Member

    Dropped the Niro off today. Tech told me it won't be an easy process and it's ultimately up to Kia. I said the fact that they've developed an updated motor is pretty compelling evidence Kia knows this is a real thing. Hopefully parts availability won't keep me out of my car for too long. Also, seemed like motor was making noise at all RPMs and all situations today so might be getting worse. Actually noticed it while cruising and not changing speeds. Will update.
     

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