Federal Rebate

Discussion in 'Hyundai Kona Electric' started by Jamas, Dec 6, 2020.

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  1. Judson Cohan

    Judson Cohan New Member

    Just a quick update: after spending a few hours on the phone with Hyundai and Hyundai Finance (which I was directed to at one point even though I didn't finance the vehicle), I was given the following advice:

    1. Talk to my tax attorney (as if most owners have one)
    2. Talk to the IRS (as if they answer the phone, and as if the people on the phone actually know anything)

    They had absolutely no idea what the form in question is.
     
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  3. Zekelion

    Zekelion New Member

    Don't laugh at me, but I would email/call your US House Representative's office (especially if they're sympathetic to EVs or, even better, on the Ways and Means committee) if you don't get anywhere by calling the IRS. The consumer never has custody of the MCO, so there's something lost in translation with the IRS letter that's going out.
     
  4. Robbert

    Robbert Active Member

    Good news -- A fellow Facebook user (David Alicea) in the Kona EV Owners Group found the form after getting in touch with Hyundai Corporate. Attached below (he said that the VIN isn't his, but just a sample that Hyundai Corporate sent him).
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. Hamilton

    Hamilton New Member

    That is great and all, but it is not the form the IRS is looking for. If it where, it would explicitly say it was a foreign manufacturers certification (the exact verbiage escapes me). As near as I can glean, the IRS audit letter is asking for a certification given to appliances. The form simply doesn't exist. The community has been calling, looking, and asking for this phantom form for a good little while now. The audit letter gives only a month to respond lest you forfeit the rebate. I've already sent in my answer, without the phantom form, explaining why. This is an example of how everything the government touches, it ruins. The rebate is a promise made, in writing by explicit IRS publication, that the money will be refunded for purchasing this eligible vehicle. Now the IRS sends this letter of harassment to thousands, I assume, of purchasers who cannot satisfy the demands of the audit. I await the comments when responses from the IRS come back, I suspect more harassment and lengthy fights to keep our money. This would be as if John Q. Taxpayer was sent an audit letter saying their dependant deduction was invalid and they needed to provide a doctor's certification that their child was human. The doctor would slowly whisper "fml" while instructing the parent to go fly a kite and the IRS hotline would put you on hold for seven hours only to hang up after a lengthy "let me check with my supervisor."
     
  6. Genevamech

    Genevamech Active Member

    Rather, this sounds like a bunch of people have exploited/defrauded the rebate program (perhaps unknowingly through simple error) and now there's a scramble to "fix the glitch."

    The documents Robbert posted should be the certification information they are looking for. It includes a certificate document from the EPA and another from the CARB, along with letters detailing how the vehicle complies with the law to qualify for the rebate. All of these are marked as received by the IRS in Nov. 2018. The very first page is a letter from the IRS acknowledging the certification as valid.

    "Pursuant with Section 5.03 of Notice 2009-89, however, this acknowledgement is not a determination that a vehicle qualifies for the credit."

    So what information does this section require to demonstrate the vehicle qualifies?

    https://www.irs.gov/irb/2009-48_IRB#NOT-2009-89

    Section 5.03 lists 17 items that are required. All 17 are provided in the letter dated October 29th from Hyundai to the IRS, as the first attachment. That is literally the certification they're asking for. If this somehow isn't sufficient for the Tax Inspector General, I suspect it will be for a federal judge.
     
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  8. Hamilton

    Hamilton New Member

    I don't want to go tit for tat, but this is not the document the IRS wants. The IRS asks for a domestic distributors certificate, anything other than a certificate titled that is not it. This is a copy of one person's (in California) fight against the taxman with a letter from Hyundai dated 2018. It is plain that the Hyundai Kona Electric, by IRS publication, is eligible for the $7500 rebate. Any defense of the IRS in it's ineptitude to apply that is laughable. Because some people cheated on their taxes to claim this credit does not mean all us simple taxpayers claiming a plain-as-day credit will within the rules should be subject to audit. Should the hundreds of thousands of Tesla buyers who got it while that credit was that available be audited? Nissan? Chevy? And on and on? Elon would laugh at supplying all his buyers with a made up piece of paper, not his job.

    Anything short of an acceptance of any submission of VIN and an apology for the intrusive federal tax audit is harassment of a law abiding US citizen.
     
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  9. porky

    porky Member

    Not the same thing, but when I purchased by Kia Niro EV and sent the VIN to my insurance company, they identified it as a Kia Niro Hybrid. When I inquired, they told me not to worry so long as the VIN was correct. The IRS may be using a similar database for the Kona.
     
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  10. Robbert

    Robbert Active Member

    Had anyone gotten a response yet from the IRS on this issue? I sent in my paperwork in December, but haven’t heard back, except for a receipt acknowledgement.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Hamilton

    Hamilton New Member

    I haven't even recieved that, I sent mine in December too. I have the electronic receipt for the fax.
     
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  13. Robbert

    Robbert Active Member

    I sent my fax twice since the first time one of the pages was hard to read when I looked at the sent log. And I promptly got two receipt acknowledgements. :)
    Just super curious how they’re going to handle this...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  14. Thomas Mackay

    Thomas Mackay New Member

    I filed my tax return with turbo tax. I entered the VIN and it told me it was a qualified car for the full tax credit.
     
  15. Judson Cohan

    Judson Cohan New Member

    I got an acknowledgement from the IRS dated 1/11/21. It said that my response should be reviewed by May 14, and that they will contact me if they need more information.
     
  16. KonaEV

    KonaEV New Member

    Thank you for posting this letter. I just got the same IRS letter for my Kona EV. VIN was correctly entered in tax return.
     
  17. I too have been audited with the reason that the VIN on my 2019 Kona Electric was invalid or ineligible. I've faxed back requested info: proof of VIN, purchase contract and the 9 page IRS certification documentation that Robbert posted. Fingers crossed!
     
  18. Ed T.

    Ed T. New Member

    That's great. Did you obtain the letter for your vehicle by contacting Hyundai? I sent an email late last week and have not heard back yet.
     
  19. Coug5

    Coug5 New Member

    Chevy Bolt owner here. I am having the same problem with the IRS. I received a similar letter from them. I contacted the dealer and was able to get the form and sent it with a copy of the purchase agreement for the car.
    I received a reply on Friday. They are denying my credit. They claimed the purchase order was undated. It was dated. They sent a tax assessment of $9,400 for the denied credit and penalties and interest. I can either accept and pay up or disagree and send additional info. Now they want a copy of the title.
    The problem is my state issues the title to the lender. I have the title because I paid the loan off early but it is dated 4/20/2020 the date of payoff. I sent it any way but explained why it is irrelevant.
    I also sent the initial registration dated 4/42019 due to the delay in documents to the state. I also sent the “we owe”, the odometer certification, the loan agreement and another copy of the purchase contract, all dated 3/26/2019 the date of purchase.
    This is very frustrating.
    The Bolt rebate dropped to $3,750 on 4/1/2019 and was $0 as of my title date. I suspect I will end up in tax court which will require me to pay the $9,400 to stop the interest.
    I wont be buying anymore EVs that have a tax credit.
     
  20. Robbert

    Robbert Active Member

    Holy cow.. That is really crappy.... I guess for most of us Kona owners, the issue is likely different -- i.e. the IRS was using the wrong database to verify the VINs.

    Of course, I just read your post, walked to my mailbox, and saw an IRS envelope. To say I was scared when opening it, is an understatement.. To my relief though, the letter read "We are closing your examination with no changes", which I suppose means that they were ok with the paperwork I submitted. Case closed for my Kona ...

    Of course because of all the battery issues and recalls -- I'm now starting to think about a different EV ... I test drove the Mach E last weekend (darn, that was a nice car!), and will be test driving the Model Y as well next weekend. If I end up making the jump -- with the Mach-E I'll have another one of those "opportunities" for the IRS to question my tax return.....

    Fun fun...

    Good luck to you though! It sounds like you have quite the battle ahead of you...
     
  21. Gosh, that sounds like a pain. I like the system in Canada. The dealers receive the rebate and the cost is deducted from the sell price of the vehicle at time of purchase. No bureaucrats to deal with.
     
  22. Ed C

    Ed C Active Member

    Yeah, the US government bureaucrats is a pain. They have no problem printing another $1.9 Trillion and handing it out to everyone including children $1400 whether they even worked for it or not..... yet you legitimately purchased an EV for their $7500 tax credit (money you get back from what you earned), and the IRS is playing tickey-tackey to deny you your money back. Hilarious here in America.
     
  23. I thought this was an EV forum, not a political forum!
     
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