Are hydrogen tanks superior to batteries?

Discussion in 'General' started by Martin Williams, Apr 3, 2018.

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  1. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Active Member

    FCEV's have batteries, too. They are very heat intolerant, so if they have to warm up to work, then I think they too would lose efficiency in cold temps. The Mirai has TWO onboard compressors, so I would imagine they are effected by cold or hot temps.

    Electric motors don't change hardly at all in cold temps.
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  3. TeslaInvestors

    TeslaInvestors Active Member

    Last edited: Apr 29, 2018
  4. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    If this works out, then hydrogen tanks could become a lot less expensive and a lot more convenient.

    As ever, I will believe it when it appears in cars running on the roads, but it appears to beat the DOE's target for storing hydrogen in low-pressure tanks.

    I checked for the availability of boron in our planet and it is fairly abundant at four times that of tin, so I guess that this will not be constrained by the availability of boron. Whether another shop stopper appears remains to be seen though. I have no idea how difficult it is to manufacture BN in this complex form. It may prove impossible, or horrendously expensive for instance, but not being a chemist I could be quite wrong.
  5. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I stopped reading when I got to this cabbage:

    Hydrogen’s primary drawbacks relate to portability, storage and safety.
    No, those are merely some of the secondary drawbacks. Primary drawbacks would be cost, abysmal energy efficiency for the supply chain, cost, very poor EROI, and of course cost.
    NeilBlanchard likes this.
  6. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    Of course you did! And you were right to do so. The rest would have confused you mightily I expect.
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  8. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

  9. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    I pick up my Honda Clarity FCV tomorrow. During the week, it will become my mother's vehicle and the weekend, a road trip vehicle for my family.

    I'll be logging serious miles on this thing. I'll post all the adventures on this forum. Wish me luck!
  10. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I will look forward to that. What made you choose an FCV in the first place, rather than a battery powered car?
  11. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    Don't believe the sales figure on insideevs, it's misleading. The demand for the Clarity Fuel Cell is Hugh.

    There's a year long wait list for the car. Dealers don't even list it on their site because the wait list is too long.
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  13. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    If you crunch the numbers, the Clarity Fuel Cell is the best bang for your buck. I travel mostly in California and the fuel cell is superior to EV (cost, charge time) or gas (cost).

    With the FCV, I get to choose. With a BEV, I'm force to eat where I charge. Sitting for an hour and doing nothing is amazingly frustrating. Charging after hours is doublely frustrating with no restaurants open and nothing for the kids to do. With 5 minute refueling and 366 mile range, I can pick and choose.

    Take for example Harris Ranch. I'm force to eat at that overpriced, overhyped restaurant while charging. With FCV, I can fill up in 5 minute and go to a restaurant I enjoy.

    Traveling with a BEV sucks.

    Don't bring up Tesla because I already did a road trip with the S and it sucked. It sucked less than that POS Bolt.
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  14. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    Your reasons make sense to me. An evidently to many others if the demand for them is as big as you claim
  15. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Don't believe the sales numbers? Seriously? Having a long wait list does not mean a car is in high demand. High sales and long wait list does (aka Model 3) but low sales and a long wait list means it's simply in very low production because it only exists to earn Toyota and Honda ZEV credits that they can use in all CARB states with the travel provision. They won't even sell you the car. Only lease. They don't take the car seriously at all.

    Also... POS Bolt!? And I thought you jumped the shark when you swore up and down that the Volt would sell 10k units this year! lol (Don't forget, you owe me $1) Wait... aren't you the one that wanted a Kona Electric that is the exact same size, range and (probably) price as the Bolt?

    Also wait: didn't you buy a clarity Electric? If so, your charging issues are on you, man. I had no issues with my Spark EV because we had a Volt as well.

    Now with the Bolt, I only ever charge at home. I haven't had to use a public charger since our vacation last fall. If you can't charge at home then a hybrid, PHEV or efficient ICE car makes far more sense than a Fuel Cell or short range Electric vehicle like the clarity. You really should skip BEV and fuel cell if they don't work for you... just get an ICE or hybrid!

    You shouldn't let Martin and Tesla Investor's ridiculous propaganda sway you. Oh well, your money to waste.
    ekutter likes this.
  16. WadeTyhon

    WadeTyhon Well-Known Member

    Funny how you accept any statement about Fuel Cells that seems to support them without even trying to question them. But when verifiable facts about BEV and PHEVs are presented to you, you disregard them completely.
    ekutter likes this.
  17. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I expect you missed my caveat: "...if the demand for them is as big as you claim".

    I can understand his reasons for buying one, but my acceptance of the big demand was provisional upon further data appearing. I guess we'll see that reflected in the sales figures as time goes on. On this basis, it certainly seems to have pushed the Mirai into second place.
  18. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    I wonder how the Hyundai Nexo will fare when it goes on sale in the USA? Hyundai are claiming 500 miles range.

    One of the points in favour of FCVs is that two-thirds of Brits cannot charge a car at home without running cables across the pavement from their houses and the same is true across much of Europe. So plug-ins are really not an option for the majority of the European market. Hydrogen cars, however, are. Even in America, one-third of the population are similarly unable to take advantage of a plug-in's charms.

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  19. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    First, the bolt and Kona is not the same because one has a crippled DCFC which limits it to a glorified city car. Anyone who has taken a road trip on that crippled EV will understand what I'm talking about.

    Second, the Clarity electric is a leased vehicle for commuting only because it's the cheapest option available. I love the Clarity electric.

    Third, the Chevy volt is a crippled hybrid with rear seats for midgets and so so mpg for road trip. I got 33 mpg on a 900 mile road trip. The Honda Civic gets over 40 mpg. The Volt will go down as the ultimate compromised vehicle.

    GM honkers kill me. At least Tesla fanbois worship a good company.
  20. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    I don't know if he's serious; at times I think all of Martin's posts on the subject of fool cell cars, hydrogen fuel, and BEVs are just an elaborate exercise in trolling. Surely he isn't either crazy or stupid enough to actually believe his fool cell fanboy claims, or his BEV-bashing FUD? Really, I think it would actually be more insulting to him to suggest he actually believes what he posts.

    But it certainly is typical of him to advocate that we should ignore actual facts and actual data in favor of his fool cell fanboy wishful thinking!

  21. JyChevyVolt

    JyChevyVolt Active Member

    I test drove the Mirai and its a Prius in disguise. I usually take the cheaper option but in this case, I'll wait for the Clarity. The Mirai lease deal seem expensive for what I get. The Mirai is a bad car period.
  22. Martin Williams

    Martin Williams Active Member

    What a pity you got the wrong person. It was JyChevyVolt who advised people not to believe the sales figures not me. I don't know if this is good or bad advice which is why I didn't comment on it either.

    I wonder if I'll receive an apology for the tirade of abuse Pushmi delivered? Probably not.

    It is somewhat irrelevant anyway. I find this sort of abuse is hurtful only when it comes from people whose opinions I respect.
  23. Pushmi-Pullyu

    Pushmi-Pullyu Well-Known Member

    That's true. Mea culpa, and my sincere apologies for my error. :oops:

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