Are EV owners more scared of COVID-19 than ICE owners?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by BlueKonaEV, May 5, 2020.

  1. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    The US has more large cities than any other country.. An infection like this spreads a lot faster in large cities.. It's not a fair comparisons to compare mostly rural countries with a country like the US.. Also, the USA is the country in the world with most civil liberties and there are restrictions on government what they can do and what they can restrict. Of course, dictatorships like China can do what they want as their people have close to no rights. I rather have more rights and more pandemic deaths than less pandemic deaths and less civil liberties.
  2. SouthernDude

    SouthernDude Member

    The virus response is merely a moral panic. The death and hospitalization rate are very low, so it isn’t worth going through all the nonsense we are now.

    Who cares what these ‘experts’ are saying? Earlier they said that masks weren’t very effective and now its ‘wear a mask everywhere or grandma dies’. Its also interesting how any dissenting opinion from the mainstream narrative gets suppressed - even if that opinion is coming from a licensed doctor. So its really ‘trust the experts that promote a particular narrative’.

    So no. I don’t care about the virus and I believe that most of this is a moral panic. We are acting like this is the bubonic plague and this virus is orders of magnitude from being anywhere close to that. The only people who should be concerned are those with preexisting conditions and they should be doing this anyways.
    cmwade77 likes this.
  3. ericy

    ericy Active Member

    Other countries have very large cities as well. Take one example - greater Toronto has about 6 million people. And Canada isn't a dictatorship. And yet they have their case rates down to the point where Canadians are now allowed to travel to Europe, where there are also large cities.

    The US does have quarantine laws to prevent the spread of communicable diseases - they were last really used in the 1918 pandemic.

    The federal government derives its authority for isolation and quarantine from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

    Under section 361 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S. Code § 264), the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to take measures to prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases from foreign countries into the United States and between states.

    The authority for carrying out these functions on a daily basis has been delegated to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
    For whatever reason, the CDC has been completely invisible in this pandemic. They are not even allowed to hold press briefings.
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    Let me ask Herman Cain ... Opps, too late:

    So this is my protocol:
    • I see a bunch of mask-less people chatting away ... I have somewhere else to go.
    • A bar or restaurant has no social distancing ... I have somewhere else to go.
    • A store has staff and customers unmasked ... I have somewhere else to shop.
    If others choose the "Darwin Award" solution, good on them but I won't be following their example. After all, I bought TSLA at $300/share and they did not. I traded in a 2017 Prius Prime and got $18.3k value to buy our Std Rng Plus Model 3 and they did not. As the mythical character Forest Gump said, "Stupid is as Stupid does."

    Bob Wilson
    Clamps likes this.
  5. marshall

    marshall Active Member

  6. I believe the answer lies in the attitude of people. In India and China people don't think their constitutional right are restricted because someone asks you to wear a mask.

    In fact in these countries family bonds and social respect to each other are at a much higher value than in the US.

    (And people are more accustomed to wearing masks because air pollution in big cities is a bigger problem than here)
  7. Clamps likes this.
  8. Domenick

    Domenick Administrator Staff Member

    Hey, I'd just like to thank you all for talking about this without insulting users with different attitudes about the situation and keeping everything family friendly, language-wise. For my own part, I've seen opinions expressed that I strongly disagree with and I imagine mostly everyone else here has too.

    That is all. :)
    Bruce M., BlueKonaEV, Clamps and 2 others like this.
  9. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    I have no issue with quarantine for people who are infected.. I'm actually in favor of it. What I have an issue with is quarantine for healthy people. I understand that government can regulate commerce and that's why they can require masks when you enter a place of business. They can even shut down the business. No doubt that they can do that. However, those decisions are better left to the states. Each state has different risks and different policies work better based on criteria like if it's more of a rural state or if it's a state with many larger cities.. So, I do think that it's right to let the states decide. I personally favor that individual businesses should decide how to protect their customers and employees.. As a customer, you have the choice to patronize a business with high safety precautions or one with low safety precautions. I believe in the consequences of individual choices.. I have zero issues with businesses mandating face masks etc.
    However, I do have a problem with disallowing healthy citizens from going out in public. You are not engaging in commerce if you go to a public park. Our 5th amendment gives us the right not to be deprived of liberty among other things without due process of law. So, unless you are infected, government can't tell you that you can't go out without due process. The burden of proof is at government. You can't reverse the burden of proof. Again, I'm not contesting that they can can't regulate commerce as they can but they can't tell you that you can't go out in public as you are not engaging in commerce and if you are not proven to be infected, they can't stop you to go out in public.
  10. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    Religious people seem to believe that they are immune.. I'm an atheist myself but my wife is Christian.. We are taking my kids to a church where they attend some religious classes.. My wife usually attends the service and I wait for her in one of the community rooms as I certainly won't attend the service.. Absolutely NOBODY at the church was wearing a mask despite an order from the City to do so.. They did however take our temperature when we entered the building..
  11. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    India's numbers are still rising VERY FAST.. so we don't know about their final numbers.. China is a dictatorship and taking freedoms away from their citizens is not a problem for government..
  12. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if following authority is necessarily a good thing.. If we look at history.. many people are now dead, killed by their own governments because they followed orders by their government... I can elaborate on that if you wish..
  13. No necessity. I'm German.
    Following your government blindly is of course not a good thing to do. A good example is what currently happens in Portland and Seattle.

    However, using some common sense and staying away from people you don't know or live with and wearing a mask hasn't killed anybody.

    And yes I know some people claim to have breathing issues, then wear a f***** face shield. This is not rocket science and your manliness or constitutional rights are not cut in any way.

    Some people just need to get over themselves, and I'm not talking about anybody here in the forum. I've experienced it too much in public and on certain social media platforms.
    Bruce M. likes this.
  14. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    I know that you are german.. We are basically neighbors.. I was born in Austria and I know a lot about the WWII time from my grandparents who lived through it.. My parents were young kids at that time. I'm not in any way against masks. I really don't get the people that make a scene at the supermarket because they are asked to wear a mask.. My local Walmart now has security guards at the entrance that enforce the face mask requirement..
  15. Unfortunately, it's now solidly established that asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people can spread the virus. Unless we have universally available testing with immediately-available results, the only way to control the virus (till an effective vaccine or cure arrives) is through restrictions designed to stop the spread. "Individual responsibility" is great, but not when you exercising your freedom endangers my life. It's not coincidence that the states with rapidly rising death rates are ones that either established few/spotty restrictions (e.g. Florida, Texas) or lifted them too quickly (my home state of California, alas). I am quite happy to give up a bit of my freedom to avoid risking others' lives. But I think we can all agree, at least, that people who throw a fit at being asked to wear a mask are idiots.
    Esprit1st likes this.
  16. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    While it is possible that asymptomatic people spread it, it's not very likely that they do, especially if you are 6 feet away from them. Caughing and Sneezing are the most common way of transmission.. Of course, IF YOU ARE CLOSE ENOUGH, it can be passed on via talking but as I said, unless you get very close to such person, you are very unlikely to get it. You also have the choice to go to places that mandate face masks and social distancing.. I'm in Florida and we have mask requirements in most places.. Just about any medium to larger cities have a face mask mandate. Many local chains mandate face masks in their stores.. (Publix, Florida's largest Supermarket chain started requiring face masks)..
  17. There's just no scientific basis for the claim that "it's not very likely" asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic people spread coronavirus. The overwhelming body of experience with similar viruses suggests they are likely to, and your point about coughing and sneezing is baffling. Sneezing isn't a common COVID-19 symptom, and people do cough and sneeze rather often from other causes even if their COVID isn't causing symptoms (take it from an allergy sufferer).

    Here's a good, pretty balanced article
  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web Well-Known Member Subscriber

    It has been my practice when visiting a bar to sit apart, use noise canceling earbuds, and read forums. But lately, I've seen at least one case when another bar regular came over to sit with me. I've not spoken to anyone in the past except the bar tender and service staff. But I was eating a salad and having a beverage at a tall table because the bar was too full. I am not used to talking with strangers and do nothing to encourage it.

    Upon reflection, a side effect of the social distancing and masks may be a sense of social isolation ... a form of loneliness. This may induce strangers to reach out to others ... and spread the SARS-CoV-2 Being a 'standalone' guy, I find this uncomfortable. So I am more likely to change bars than put up with the nosey, noisy, lonely. I especially don't like them trying to have a conversation while I'm eating.

    A 'regular' customer, I am easily recognized and polite. I wear my mask without a problem and don't care for the mask-less any more than I tolerate guys and gals trading 'pickup lines' nearby. I will move to reduce their volume. Regardless, the mask is also a signal that no one has taken my drink or food order and I wear it until something arrives.

    Bob Wilson
  19. ericy

    ericy Active Member

    One of the issues that I see reported is that getting test results takes far too long. 10 days or 2 weeks. People in other countries get their results in 24 hours.

    It becomes important because you really want people who are positive to isolate and not infect others. With long delays like this, the testing is close to useless - you can't use it to get people to isolate, and contact tracing becomes impossible.

    In other news, I see reports in the news that they are trying to train dogs to detect signs of covid in human saliva samples. They believe there are very subtle things that dogs can pick up, and if this actually works out, one could get a more or less instantaneous readout. In theory one could develop a machine not unlike a breathalyzer that the police use to detect the same sorts of things - there are stories in the news about people developing such a test that could also give an instant readout.
  20. BlueKonaEV

    BlueKonaEV Well-Known Member

    I believe that right now, it's 24 hours everywhere.. It used to be several days but testing speed has dramatically improved.. That's one of the reasons why more infected people are found as they are able to test more and more.. Luckily, in my state, the number of infected is finally dropping.. It has been lower for 3 - 4 days now.. Hopefully it will keep dropping..

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