Clarity Issues

[Ken7]

I just washed mine the other day, before a grocery run, and there was no water in the trunk when I loaded out the basket.

Did you go through an automatic car wash? I don't get this kind of water with a heavy rain or such, just when I go through an automatic car wash with water pouring down.

I should point out there isn't water in the trunk per se, but rather water running down the seams of the trunk lid and the inside channels.

 

[dstrauss]

Did you go through an automatic car wash? I don't get this kind of water with a heavy rain or such, just when I go through an automatic car wash with water pouring down.

I should point out there isn't water in the trunk per se, but rather water running down the seams of the trunk lid and the inside channels.

Yes, one of those automated power washes, but it is about a mile to the grocery store from there so I'm sure it would have drained out of the channels in that distance.

 

[Ken7]

Hmm, still sounds like mine might be worse than yours. That's OK, as long as it doesn't leak into the passenger or actual trunk, I can live with it. It just means cleaning out those channels so the water doesn't drip on the rear quarter panels or trunk lip and bumper.

 

[jdonalds]

In my case my wife had been driving in the rain, then came into the garage and parked. I was working in the garage and noticed a puddle coming out of the right side of the car. We've lived here for six years and had various cars parked in that same spot without forming a similar puddle.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

I don't believe the gas engine heat is used to heat the battery, although I could be wrong. I say this as they are on separate coolant circuits (there is one for Engine, one for Battery, and one for HV electronics according to manual).

Clearly you know more about the subject than I do, so I'm certainly not going to assert you're wrong here. All I know is what I've read. For example:

One thing that might curb electric driving in the plug-in is a cold snap. The Clarity electric has a single water-cooling system that covers the battery pack, power electronics, and motor, and while all Clarity models have resistive heating, in the Clarity electric it’s supplemented by a heat pump. Plug-in models also get an electric-powered engine-heat-based system that works as the primary heat source when the engine is running; Honda requires it to be run at cold temperatures (below 14 degrees F).
​

(source)

If the car uses engine heat as the primary heat source when the engine is running, that means there must be at least a heat exchanger between the engine cooling system and the cabin heating system. There could just as easily be a heat exchanger to warm the battery pack.

Again, not asserting you're wrong; just wondering if you considered that possibility.

If the Clarity PHEV is not using engine heat to warm the battery pack, then what is the source of heat for the battery heater? Is the heat pump being used to keep the battery pack warm in bitterly cold weather? Seems unlikely to me, as heat pumps don't put out much heat in those temperatures.

 

[bpratt]

If the Clarity PHEV is not using engine heat to warm the battery pack, then what is the source of heat for the battery heater?

You answered you question with your For example: "and while all Clarity models have resistive heating"
Resistive heating is like a heat lamp and uses electricity from the battery to generate the heat.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

You answered you question with your For example: "and while all Clarity models have resistive heating"
Resistive heating is like a heat lamp and uses electricity from the battery to generate the heat.

But it doesn't say the resistive heater is used to heat the battery pack. It may be that it's only used to heat the cabin.

I'm sure that I read that the Clarity PHEV does not use a resistive heater to heat the battery pack, but I can't find that citation right off. Of course, just because I read that doesn't mean it's correct.

 

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Ah, found the citation:

Was very seriously considering this car, but learned while reading the manual that a battery heating system is not included in the US model. Result: Will not start in battery temperatures below -22F, and engine must run in temperatures below 14F (not sure if that’s also due to lack of a battery heater). Not the most encouraging setup up north in the winter. Canadian models get a battery heater, which I’m assuming will help the need for the engine to run.
​

(source)

But obviously that wasn't written by an expert; it's just what one guy concluded from reading the manual.

It would be nice to see this subject addressed by something official from Honda.
-

 

[Michael L.]

You've all triggered a faint memory - when we first took delivery of ours, the motor sounded like it was going to bust a gut it was straining so hard - but there was no charge at all - on the way home it got up to 20% battery and it was running smooth and quiet, even though it was still in HV mode. When I took my one HV trip (180 miles round trip), it was HV all the way to the destination; very little battery drop; no real motor noise in the cabin. I think (or is that a SWAG) that if the ICE is primarily driving the generator to provide electricity for the electric motor, it is a lot smoother sailing than when it is directly coupled.

I have got to believe there is going to be quite a shakedown period for all of us over the next 12 months with such a new design.

One great note - according to my Level 2 charger I've used 92 kWh over the last 407 (all EV) miles. At $0.12/kWh, that's approximately the equivalent of 4.33 gallons (at $2.55/gal here). A measly 94 mpge for my commuting (and that includes two weeks of the coldest days since last winter - of course here in West Texas that means 36H/16L). What I dread is the impact of all those upcoming summer 100 days from June-August.

Wow, you are killing it. So far I've used 149 kWh to go 341 miles. Since I have bought the car a couple days before Christmas, we have had several arctic outbreaks. The temp was in the single digits this morning when I drove to work. Despite the fact that the cold has been affecting my efficiency, I'm still getting 75 mpg-e. My Accord Hybrid during this stretch of cold weather, 34 mpg. And my wife's Civic, 28 mpg. Still cheaper and way more efficient than the other cars. Can't wait to see my efficiency increase when it warms up.

 

[dstrauss]

Wow, you are killing it. So far I've used 149 kWh to go 341 miles. Since I have bought the car a couple days before Christmas, we have had several arctic outbreaks. The temp was in the single digits this morning when I drove to work. Despite the fact that the cold has been affecting my efficiency, I'm still getting 75 mpg-e. My Accord Hybrid during this stretch of cold weather, 34 mpg. And my wife's Civic, 28 mpg. Still cheaper and way more efficient than the other cars. Can't wait to see my efficiency increase when it warms up.

1. I don't know how accurate the Clarity's own gauge is, but this is the 801 mile report (tried to catch "800" but too slow) - ALSO, remember, I am a reformed Prius owner with a pretty light touch on the accelerator and brakes, to the point my own children deride me as "great-grandpa"
2. Outside of the two highway trips (40 miles at 75mph and 190 miles at 75-80mph) these are city miles generally between 30-60mph
3. Weather has been mostly 40-50 degrees, with exception of two very cold 3-4 day sessions of 20-30 degrees
4. No doubt in my mind that cold (and we aren't even talking what many of you suffer through) has a BIG impact on range/performance
5. Noticed a strange incident in both cold snaps - the cars engine would come on for about 5 miles then go EV BUT the gauage showed no blue range, only white, while the output screen showed it was running on battery only (I could not hear any engine noise) and had to turn car off and back on at a red light and gauge started registering EV only again (blue)

Thoughts: number 5 worries me because it is a software issue similar to the random killing of SXM radio when you use the Climate Remote - have to reset the software to regain accurate reporting.

I have a lot going this week, but I am going to try to contact Honda corporate to ask them to set up a forum or something for registered owners to report issues and comments - unlikely to get much traction but worth the effort. In the meantime, perhaps we should start a new Issues/Comments thread for JUST reporting issues, with no discussion allowed (keep that in the current Issues thread)?

 

[Michael L.]

View attachment 407

1. I don't know how accurate the Clarity's own gauge is, but this is the 801 mile report (tried to catch "800" but too slow) - ALSO, remember, I am a reformed Prius owner with a pretty light touch on the accelerator and brakes, to the point my own children deride me as "great-grandpa"
2. Outside of the two highway trips (40 miles at 75mph and 190 miles at 75-80mph) these are city miles generally between 30-60mph
3. Weather has been mostly 40-50 degrees, with exception of two very cold 3-4 day sessions of 20-30 degrees
4. No doubt in my mind that cold (and we aren't even talking what many of you suffer through) has a BIG impact on range/performance
5. Noticed a strange incident in both cold snaps - the cars engine would come on for about 5 miles then go EV BUT the gauage showed no blue range, only white, while the output screen showed it was running on battery only (I could not hear any engine noise) and had to turn car off and back on at a red light and gauge started registering EV only again (blue)

Thoughts: number 5 worries me because it is a software issue similar to the random killing of SXM radio when you use the Climate Remote - have to reset the software to regain accurate reporting.

I have a lot going this week, but I am going to try to contact Honda corporate to ask them to set up a forum or something for registered owners to report issues and comments - unlikely to get much traction but worth the effort. In the meantime, perhaps we should start a new Issues/Comments thread for JUST reporting issues, with no discussion allowed (keep that in the current Issues thread)?

1. Regarding the fuel economy gauge...based on my observation it only measures efficiency of the gas engine. It does not take into account use of electrical energy in EV mode, so we have to manually calculate this based on our kWh usage (as reported from our L2 home/public chargers), and convert kWh to a gallon of E10 gasoline using the conversion 32.78 kWh/gal. Since it is very likely most if not all Clarity owners would charge up many times between fill-ups, we have to sum up our kWh usage, convert that to gallons of E10, and then finally add in the gallons of gasoline at fill-up to come up with the most accurate mpg-e. The car's mpg figure would only be useful in HV/HV charge modes.
4. I totally agree that the cold has a big impact on range/efficiency. The vehicle's estimated EV range, as reported on the infotainment system and on the Hondalink app has been dropping during the cold snaps. It makes sense, the car has to generate heat using heat pump and/or resistant heating since it doesn't use the inefficient/heat producing gas engine to heat the cabin.
5. I have not observed that particular software bug. Based on recommendations from an EV site on cold weather driving, I use ECON mode exclusively when the outside temp is below 50F. The gas engine hasn't come on but one time during these recent cold snaps, when I briefly got on the turnpike at 75 mph. I have, however, experienced the SXM freeze up. It wasn't until I read thru this thread that I learned it may be tied to the Remote Climate. This issue isn't consistent though, the previous 2 mornings after using Remote Climate I have had no issues with the SXM radio, but the previous 2 days before that I did experience the issue.

If you get a response from Honda corporate please pass that along. Appreciate the info you have added to this thread.

 

[dstrauss]

...If you get a response from Honda corporate please pass that along. Appreciate the info you have added to this thread.

Will do.

As for the other questions:

1. The whole MPGe model is baffling to me. In 801 miles I have used 6.3 gal gas (@$2.54/gal) and 174 KWh at approx $0.12/KWh. If I assume I've used about 8.2 "gallons" of electricity, for a total of 14.5 gal - does that mean I have a 55.2 MPGe? Really good, but not outstanding.

5. I have not been outside Eco mode other than for the longer trip to Pecos (190 miles). The SXM cut-out issue is random for me as well, EXCEPT it never happens except in conjunction with Remote Climate.

Speaking of which - how in the world does Remote Climate work? My car is in a covered parking structure, at least 100 yards away by line of site. Too far for Bluetooth, the car has no cellular WiFi, and no access to the sky (for satellite) but I can activate my Remote Climate from my office with Hondalink?

 

[Tiralc]

>>Speaking of which - how in the world does Remote Climate work? My car is in a covered parking structure, at least 100 yards away by line of site. Too far for Bluetooth, the car has no cellular WiFi, and no access to the sky (for satellite) but I can activate my Remote Climate from my office with Hondalink?

I think you need some connection between the Clarity and the Internet to be able to use Hondalink beyond bluetooth range (so Hondalink can talk to the car). Are there any open access point (e.g. public WiFi) available in the parking structure? It's been a while since I set up WiFi to my home network in the Clarity, the Clarity probably shows what WiFi access points are available on that page.

So, the Clarity has WiFi, but not cellular, or cellular WiFi (e.g. a hot spot). It would be expensive, but another option might be to put the lowest cost hot spot (either a hot spot device, or an extra phone with hot spot capability) in the car. Not real practical or inexpensive, but I think a hot spot for WiFi in the car would work too. Of course, that device would be one more thing that needs power, and/or constant recharging.

It was nice to have the cellular based Onstar in the Volt, but that was expensive too (monthly payments to Onstar).

 

[Ken7]

Well we know the Clarity doesn't have it's own LTE network, so I imagine it must be WiFi. However even that's a head scratcher. I've remotely communicated with the car's remote climate via my iPhone app, and I'm almost certain there were no public WiFi spots in the area and I was 100% too far away from Bluetooth range. Even with the presence of WiFi, doesn't there have to be an agreement to sign on to those WiFi networks?

So I agree with dstrauss, how DOES this work?

 

[jdonalds]

Will do.

As for the other questions:

1. The whole MPGe model is baffling to me. In 801 miles I have used 6.3 gal gas (@$2.54/gal) and 174 KWh at approx $0.12/KWh. If I assume I've used about 8.2 "gallons" of electricity, for a total of 14.5 gal - does that mean I have a 55.2 MPGe? Really good, but not outstanding.

5. I have not been outside Eco mode other than for the longer trip to Pecos (190 miles). The SXM cut-out issue is random for me as well, EXCEPT it never happens except in conjunction with Remote Climate.

Speaking of which - how in the world does Remote Climate work? My car is in a covered parking structure, at least 100 yards away by line of site. Too far for Bluetooth, the car has no cellular WiFi, and no access to the sky (for satellite) but I can activate my Remote Climate from my office with Hondalink?

I don't have answers. Just more questions.

On the SXM cut-out issue... We know from previous discussion here on this forum that the car won't heat or cool unless the ambient and cabin temperature is outside certain limits. Is it possible your SXM issue is intermittent because the car isn't kicking on the heat some days but is turning it on other days? We don't have the proper conditions here for me to test that theory, and we don't use SXM.

On the question of HondaLink I too am puzzled. My wife leaves the garage fully charged in the morning. She drives about 14 miles to drop our son off at school, then the gym. She goes inside the gym where she is about 100 yards away from the car. I can use the find-my-car feature to see she's parked at the gym. Still I can fire up HondaLink and see the state of charge which appears to be more-or-less accurate. How does that happen?

I wonder if her smartphone is transferring data from the car to the HondaLink cloud while she's in the car. Then all I'm doing is reading the HondaLink cloud stored data. Just a guess on my part.

On the other hand the last time HondLink strobed the car to gather up the Odometer reading was January 9th (today is the 18th). It shows about 1,500 miles when I know there are many more miles on the car. I have no idea how to get HondaLink to refresh that data, even if I'm sitting in the car it won't change.

HondaLink is a mystery. And in general it doesn't work well.

 

[Ken7]

The thing that bugs me about the HondaLink app is its estimated time until a full charge. I only intermittently get that info, and even upon manually refreshing the app, that info is often missing. Further, even when the estimated time is shown, it's not accurate. When I look at my Level 2 charger that gives me the total time of the last charge, it's always less than what the app showed.

 

[Michael L.]

1. The cost is a separate calculation from the mpg-e. We are only evaluating the total energy used over a given number of miles to get mpg-e. Total energy = Electricity used from chargers (in kWh) + gasoline in the tank (in gal of E10). Based on your numbers, 174 kWh used from chargers converts to 5.3 gallons of E10 which would then add to the 6.3 gallons of fuel used in the tank to get 11.6 equivalent gallons of E10 fuel. We now get mpg-e by taking the total miles driven 801 and dividing it by 11.6 equivalent gallons of fuel. I come up with 69 mpg-e.

5. I'm wondering whether this SXM lock up issue is actually tied to the Remote Climate after all. Regardless, Honda needs to be aware of it so a software fix can be issued.

Now to Hondalink. I've been wondering this myself. I think the car has a cellular data connection. Check the speedometer/gauge display after you turn off the car. It displays a cellular tower with several bars with some abbreviation like RCM or something like that beside it. Check to see if there are any bars displayed. If so, it's still connected to some cell network somewhere. Whatever it is, it is very cool.

 

[Ken7]

Mike, are you sure it's not just showing the data connection of your phone?

 

[Michael L.]

Mike, are you sure it's not just showing the data connection of your phone?

No, but I'll do some more research on this topic this evening.

 

[Tiralc]

>>Check the speedometer/gauge display after you turn off the car. It displays a cellular tower with several bars with some abbreviation like RCM or something like that beside it. Check to see if there are any bars displayed. If so, it's still connected to some cell network somewhere. Whatever it is, it is very cool.

It's the smartphone, the Telematics Control Unit (TCU) (which is a thing, who knew? Google it)

The other indication of no cellular (don't know for sure, but seems to be the case, especially based on our reduced HondaLink feature set) is the optional setting that lets the Clarity use your cell phone to call for help (maybe the hondlink operator?) if the Clarity detects an accident. (see bottom of page below, "Depending on your phone ...")