Tesla Universal EVSE Connected, but 12V battery drained
- Thread starter Demian Johnston
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MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Were you able to convince them to cover the TSB under warranty because it is part of the Hybrid System?
Keanen
Member
Update - I received the TSB today and it did not fix the problem as you expected. I did get the electron adapter and you are right, it works correctly with the adapter. Here are some videos showing the problem that I have shared with Tesla.
Example 1 with the Tesla adapter
Example 2 with the Lectron adapter (no issues)
Example 3 with the Tesla adapter to show multiple one minute cycles
Example 1 with the Tesla adapter
Example 2 with the Lectron adapter (no issues)
Example 3 with the Tesla adapter to show multiple one minute cycles
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
@Keanen - Nice work !
It seems you have definitively identified the culprit.
I had assumed that these NACS to J1772 adapters were simply passive devices (containing no electronics, and simply making connections between the appropriate pins).
Comparing the two:
You can see that the signals correspond directly. The L1 and L2 lines have to be simply connected through. The Ground is straight forward. The only signals that I would question would be the CP and PP pins. These (especially CP) require a pretty specific voltage range / protocol with J1772, Perhaps the 'adapter needs to include some circuitry which 'translates' between the two rather than just connect them. Obviously Lectron did it right and Tesla did not !!
Both NACS and J1772 are supposed to use IEC 61851 which seems to imply that a direct connection of CP is possible.
The PP signal is related to the latch button and it informs the EVSE that the plug is present.
I am wondering this - Suppose the PP is at fault and the vehicle is not recognizing that it is 'connected' with the Tesla adapter. What if you plugged in using the Lectron adapter, BUT just stand there and hold the button in as though you were going to unplug it. Would that cause the same periodic clicking as it does with the bad Tesla adapter? That might further pin down whether the PP signal is responsible.
It would be very interesting to go at these adapters with an ohmmeter, checking continuity to see which pins just connect through and which do not. If you look at the circuitry associated with J1772, you will see that the PP signal does not even go to the EVSE. It goes only from the latch button into the vehicle:
The latch button is supposed to present the vehicle with either 150 ohms or 480 ohms to ground depending on whether the latch is depressed or not. If you have an ohmmeter you could try this on both adapters (for safety, don't try it while the adapter is connected to the Wall Connector).
It seems you have definitively identified the culprit.
I had assumed that these NACS to J1772 adapters were simply passive devices (containing no electronics, and simply making connections between the appropriate pins).
Comparing the two:
You can see that the signals correspond directly. The L1 and L2 lines have to be simply connected through. The Ground is straight forward. The only signals that I would question would be the CP and PP pins. These (especially CP) require a pretty specific voltage range / protocol with J1772, Perhaps the 'adapter needs to include some circuitry which 'translates' between the two rather than just connect them. Obviously Lectron did it right and Tesla did not !!
Both NACS and J1772 are supposed to use IEC 61851 which seems to imply that a direct connection of CP is possible.
The PP signal is related to the latch button and it informs the EVSE that the plug is present.
I am wondering this - Suppose the PP is at fault and the vehicle is not recognizing that it is 'connected' with the Tesla adapter. What if you plugged in using the Lectron adapter, BUT just stand there and hold the button in as though you were going to unplug it. Would that cause the same periodic clicking as it does with the bad Tesla adapter? That might further pin down whether the PP signal is responsible.
It would be very interesting to go at these adapters with an ohmmeter, checking continuity to see which pins just connect through and which do not. If you look at the circuitry associated with J1772, you will see that the PP signal does not even go to the EVSE. It goes only from the latch button into the vehicle:
The latch button is supposed to present the vehicle with either 150 ohms or 480 ohms to ground depending on whether the latch is depressed or not. If you have an ohmmeter you could try this on both adapters (for safety, don't try it while the adapter is connected to the Wall Connector).
Demian Johnston
Member
I wasn’t getting updates for new replies to this post.
I still have the problem but I now run out an unplug my Clarity when I charge it. It’s so annoying.
Kudos to @Keanen for his progress.. boy, I hope Tesla can simply replace our adapters.
I’m sad that I would have to use a 3rd party adapter when the whole point was to have it built into the charger.
hopefully more people find this thread and keep pushing Tesla and keep dialing in more details.
I still have the problem but I now run out an unplug my Clarity when I charge it. It’s so annoying.
Kudos to @Keanen for his progress.. boy, I hope Tesla can simply replace our adapters.
I’m sad that I would have to use a 3rd party adapter when the whole point was to have it built into the charger.
hopefully more people find this thread and keep pushing Tesla and keep dialing in more details.
Keanen
Member
I’m still working with them and have a third charger with the same problem because I was planning on installing it at another home. I have another universal charger warranty replacement coming today and they want me to see if that one fixes anything.
I have asked for one of two things to happen, Instead of going back-and-forth that I am able to talk with an engineer to try to solve this once and for all with the data that you have all provided or to get a $200 refund to pay for the adapter that I have to use with their charger.
I have asked for one of two things to happen, Instead of going back-and-forth that I am able to talk with an engineer to try to solve this once and for all with the data that you have all provided or to get a $200 refund to pay for the adapter that I have to use with their charger.
Demian Johnston
Member
Fantastic, please do post here if you make progress. I have a feeling that we are simply early folks. I’m betting there will be other issues if this isn’t resolved. Especially if these connectors are deployed as destination chargers at hotels across the US..
Demian Johnston
Member
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I also tried with a different NACS to J1772 adapter and found that I can leave the car plugged in without the connector cycling. Also I can confirm that I do not see the “phantom” power draw from the 12V battery with a third party adapter..
I’m really both astounded but sort of relieved that it’s just the little adapter that is the source of problems here. Boy I hope that Tesla can sort this out.
I also tried with a different NACS to J1772 adapter and found that I can leave the car plugged in without the connector cycling. Also I can confirm that I do not see the “phantom” power draw from the 12V battery with a third party adapter..
I’m really both astounded but sort of relieved that it’s just the little adapter that is the source of problems here. Boy I hope that Tesla can sort this out.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Which adapter did you use?
Demian Johnston
Member
Keanen
Member
Hey everyone, I haven't given up on this yet. An update for you....
I own three Universal chargers, and none work on the Clarity as expected unless I use the third-party adapter. Telsa insisted on sending me a replacement charger, and I proved it had the same issue. They said sending back the 'bad' charger will help them further understand the issue, and they have everything they need to work on the issue. I fear this is a path to nowhere with them.
I will update you as soon as I hear or see anything different. Thanks for all the help to get this far.
I own three Universal chargers, and none work on the Clarity as expected unless I use the third-party adapter. Telsa insisted on sending me a replacement charger, and I proved it had the same issue. They said sending back the 'bad' charger will help them further understand the issue, and they have everything they need to work on the issue. I fear this is a path to nowhere with them.
I will update you as soon as I hear or see anything different. Thanks for all the help to get this far.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
What the heck !!
They want the "bad" charger ??
You have proven they are all bad haven't you ??
In October 2023, I bought two Tesla Universal Wall Connectors (TUWCs) to charge my two Honda Claritys and one Tesla. Unfortunately, neither TUWC worked properly with the Hondas. Despite two months of troubleshooting with Tesla's support (including sending videos!), they consistently blamed the Honda Clarity. Frustrated by the lack of resolution, I returned one TUWC and now use a third-party adapter with the other. This disappointment with Tesla's lack of resolution and seemingly nonexistent technical support will likely lead me to return the remaining TUWC within the next month.
Any updates @Keanen? Have you made it clear to them that their adapter is the problem, and what do they say? I'm afraid their specs are going to be the default adapter for automakers soon to be releasing NACS to J1772 adapters and this needs to be nipped in the bud.
Keanen
Member
No further dialog. I am waiting a few more weeks before I ping them again as they suggested it would be a couple of months before we see any progress. Here are some of the last responses from them…
The issue (including your returned unit) will be reviewed by engineering for further future improvements, but nothing yet for now besides mitigation.
And
From engineering- They have been made aware how the Honda Clarity handles the proximity signal sent from the vehicle with the Tesla adapter causes the Wall Connector to see communication to start charging, stop charging, back and forth. This occurs when the vehicle gets to a high state of charge.
You can take factors to mitigate this by ensuring the vehicle doesn't reach somewhere above 90% state of charge or so via scheduled charging and/or a setting to limit the charge limit of the vehicle.
I will certainly let you all know if I see any responses.You can take factors to mitigate this by ensuring the vehicle doesn't reach somewhere above 90% state of charge or so via scheduled charging and/or a setting to limit the charge limit of the vehicle.