Mike's wife's monthly Kona EV efficiency report

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navguy12 said:
Agreed.

Ramble:

And your example shows how “wrong” the argument is that says “do you know how much (many “quads*” of) energy is required to keep the economy going, there is no way we can get off fossils”.

*Quads: just a big number of British Thermal Units used in energy flowcharts such as this example:

View attachment 14747

All the above numbers are “quads”, but the thing to look at (transportation) is that only 5.09 quads worth of the energy in petroleum are turned into actual “energy services” (propelling a vehicle down a road) where 19.2 quads worth of energy in petroleum end up being wasted as “rejected energy” in the form of heat radiating from the large radiator found in a typical ICE.

Folks are constantly amazed when I tell them that my TM3 only holds the energy equivalent of about eight litres of gasoline.
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I am sorry to say but a very large percentage of the American car (truck?) buying public simply would not understand this chart. Never mind clever manipulation of the truth. The only thing they get is money $$$$.
Hopefully the electric F150 at ~$30,000 will help.
 
Lars said:
I am sorry to say but a very large percentage of the American car (truck?) buying public simply would not understand this chart. Never mind clever manipulation of the truth. The only thing they get is money $$$$.
Hopefully the electric F150 at ~$30,000 will help.
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I should have said at ~$40,000. Now GM is also in the game, same starting price promised. Good for the track guys. https://chargedevs.com/newswire/202...-faces-off-against-2022-ford-f-150-lightning/

I get it that if you own a business you need a truck, but just to show up with the biggest brute in the hood, used for picking up milk for the baby? I guess I will never get the American dream.
 
Lars said:
I should have said at ~$40,000. Now GM is also in the game, same starting price promised. Good for the track guys. https://chargedevs.com/newswire/202...-faces-off-against-2022-ford-f-150-lightning/

I get it that if you own a business you need a truck, but just to show up with the biggest brute in the hood, used for picking up milk for the baby? I guess I will never get the American dream.
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A.k.a. “Bro-dozers”.

And all those “starting from” prices are not for the ranges being quoted…and of course the dealer markups currently plaguing Ford Mach-E (and Mercedes Benz) potential customers.
 
Jan 2022 results:

jan2022 raw data.webp

jan2022 real upload data.webp
jan2022 odometer.webp
jan2022 in line meter.webp

Summary costs as of 31 Jan 2022:

jan2022 summary.webp

Total operating costs, per km (total costs minus capex costs):

$6.5025 - $5.9939 = $0.5086/km
 
Feb 2022 results:

feb2022 raw data.webp

feb2022 real upload data.webp

feb2022 odometer.webp

No photo available of in line meter used at charging destination mid-month.

feb2022 in line meter.webp

Summary costs as of 28 Feb 2022:

feb2022 summary.webp

Total operating costs, per km (total costs minus capex costs):

$5.9812 - $5.5038 = $0.4774/km
 
I am taking a slightly different view of cost to drive - ignoring capex. I am generally driving in NORMAL mode but switched to ECO to reduce torque steer, slips in the winter. Hope the attachment works out. Note that I have reduced the Heat to 20C from 22C to get a bit more distance. Kona 2022.webp

I found out that one can save the image as a png file and open it and enlarge it. Hope it helps. ;) Going back to Normal mode now. I enjoy the bit of extra pep.
 
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Lars said:
I am taking a slightly different view of cost to drive - ignoring capex. I am generally driving in NORMAL mode but switched to ECO to reduce torque steer, slips in the winter. Hope the attachment works out. Note that I have reduced the Heat to 20C from 22C to get a bit more distance. View attachment 15904

I found out that one can save the image as a png file and open it and enlarge it. Hope it helps. ;) Going back to Normal mode now. I enjoy the bit of extra pep.
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Cool. Glad to see I’m not the only spreadsheet nerd. ;)

My only observations: how do you meter (establish) the actual amount of energy pulled from the grid to fill your car; and how do you settle on the cost of that energy?
 
electriceddy said:
Nice... like to see some of those #s in the summer months. Probably closer to $0.0125/ km;)
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See if this works.
Kona 2021 Q3.webp
As you see the DCFC charging raises the cost quite bit. Still peanuts compared to gas. I calculated the cost of driving an 'average' car with 8l/100km and a RAV4 at 10l/100km for my 2021 year 17,550km. Using $1.39 per litre for gas. You guys do the math! :eek:
 
navguy12 said:
Cool. Glad to see I’m not the only spreadsheet nerd. ;)

My only observations: how do you meter (establish) the actual amount of energy pulled from the grid to fill your car; and how do you settle on the cost of that energy?
Click to expand...

No. I use 5.7kw (30A source) shown on the car as absorbed power. So what, this is not intended to be rocket fuel calculation.
 
Lars said:
No. I use 5.7kw (30A source) shown on the car as absorbed power. So what, this is not intended to be rocket fuel calculation.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I can explain it differently. I am wondering if you account for the energy (not power) pulled from the grid?

In the case of my wife’s Kona EV, the “lifetime” difference between what the car’s instruments say was uploaded and what the grid pushed into the car is 20% (with March 2022 working out to 25%).

If your energy data is based only on what the car says was uploaded (kWh/100 km on the odometer), then to arrive at an accurate energy cost per km, you have to account for the actual energy you bought from your local hydro company.

Using my March 2022 data as an example, we drew 62 kWh from the grid to propel the car 300 kms. At $0.1641 per kWh (net, all fees, tiered rate), the actual cost was $10.17.

For March 2022, the car says it used 16.5 kWh/100 km to travel the 300 km, for an implied use of 49.5 kWh, or an implied cost of only $8.12.

Via the car’s information, the cost of energy per km was $0.27 per km.

Via my actual spend on energy (that fed the circuit for the car charger), the cost of energy per km was actually $0.034 per km.
 
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navguy12 said:
Perhaps I can explain it differently. I am wondering if you account for the energy (not power) pulled from the grid?

In the case of my wife’s Kona EV, the “lifetime” difference between what the car’s instruments say was uploaded and what the grid pushed into the car is 20% (with March 2022 working out to 25%).

If your energy data is based only on what the car says was uploaded (kWh/100 km on the odometer), then to arrive at an accurate energy cost per km, you have to account for the actual energy you bought from your local hydro company.
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I get it and you are technically correct. But I have no easy means to meter the true energy the car absorbs from the net when charging. I am not trying to make proper, accurate analysis. Let's say I 'ballpark' it. The difference in fuel cost between driving our Kona and our previous Prius (4l/100hm), never mind any other ICE, is so huge that it tells a clear story. Even if I am 20% off, which I doubt, it is still far cheaper to drive electric.
 
Lars said:
I get it and you are technically correct. But I have no easy means to meter the true energy the car absorbs from the net when charging. I am not trying to make proper, accurate analysis. Let's say I 'ballpark' it. The difference in fuel cost between driving our Kona and our previous Prius (4l/100hm), never mind any other ICE, is so huge that it tells a clear story. Even if I am 20% off, which I doubt, it is still far cheaper to drive electric.
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Agreed.

My wife can drive about 50 kms for the same cost as one litre of gasoline, so I tell folks the implied “fuel economy” is about 2 litres per 100 kms.
 
navguy12 said:
Agreed.

My wife can drive about 50 kms for the same cost as one litre of gasoline, so I tell folks the implied “fuel economy” is about 2 litres per 100 kms.
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I came to the same conclusion. As the price of gas keeps going up it is getting even less than 2 litres. :D There are issues which will need to be addressed at some point, like EV drivers don't pay road taxes collected at the gas pumps to fix pot holes. But the Ont. Govt. is so eager to be reelected, does not worry about pot holes. Actually they are repaying some 'pot hole taxes', collected already for license plate stickers. :eek:
So let's not try to explain to their kind the 20% difference between your calculations and mine. :(
 
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