I agree it can read but their product page description for AP200 is misleading and wrong "Mini-sized Version of MK808】Featuring full systems diagnoses, 19 service functions, and full obdii functions, this code reader shares the same functions as the most cost-effective tablet diagnostic tool Autel MK808, but costs much less than the later (Only 1/6 of MK808). For less than $70, you’ll have a professional car repair tool with high portability. (Only $21.99 in-app purchase for one extra vehicle choice if needed, offer one FREE model for lifetime using )."
Read Battery Capacity Yourself (Autel AP200 Breakthrough)
- Thread starter MrFixit
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I agree it can read but their product page description for AP200 is misleading and wrong "Mini-sized Version of MK808】Featuring full systems diagnoses, 19 service functions, and full obdii functions, this code reader shares the same functions as the most cost-effective tablet diagnostic tool Autel MK808, but costs much less than the later (Only 1/6 of MK808). For less than $70, you’ll have a professional car repair tool with high portability. (Only $21.99 in-app purchase for one extra vehicle choice if needed, offer one FREE model for lifetime using )."
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. When I bought mine a couple years ago, they did not have anything like this on their product page...
No comparison to their 'professional' tools at all.
Maybe we will tire them out with our 30+ beta users and these odd issues we encounter and cause them to change their mind about officially supporting us.
More details on the old AP200 and New AP200 descriptions in Amazon.
Older version:
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-Blueto...Y8K6XZF/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_i=B07Y8K6XZF&psc=1
【Mini-sized Version of MK808】Featuring full systems diagnoses, 19 service functions, and full obdii functions, this code reader shares the same functions as the most cost-effective tablet diagnostic tool Autel MK808, but costs much less than the later (Only 1/6 of MK808). For less than $70, you’ll have a professional car repair tool with high portability. (Only $21.99 in-app purchase for one extra vehicle choice if needed, offer one FREE model for lifetime using ).
New version:
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AP200-Bluetooth-Professional-Automotive/dp/B07QD4GZW4
【2021 Newest! Same Functions with Autel MK808/MX808】Autel AP200 obd2 scanner bluetooth adapter has EXACTLY the same diagnostics and service functions as Autel MK808/MX808. The price is much lower than MK808/MX808, along with the 12-month nationwide warranty, it is ideal for any family DIYers looking for quality yet effective diagnostic device.
Older version:
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-Blueto...Y8K6XZF/ref=pd_lpo_2?pd_rd_i=B07Y8K6XZF&psc=1
【Mini-sized Version of MK808】Featuring full systems diagnoses, 19 service functions, and full obdii functions, this code reader shares the same functions as the most cost-effective tablet diagnostic tool Autel MK808, but costs much less than the later (Only 1/6 of MK808). For less than $70, you’ll have a professional car repair tool with high portability. (Only $21.99 in-app purchase for one extra vehicle choice if needed, offer one FREE model for lifetime using ).
New version:
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AP200-Bluetooth-Professional-Automotive/dp/B07QD4GZW4
【2021 Newest! Same Functions with Autel MK808/MX808】Autel AP200 obd2 scanner bluetooth adapter has EXACTLY the same diagnostics and service functions as Autel MK808/MX808. The price is much lower than MK808/MX808, along with the 12-month nationwide warranty, it is ideal for any family DIYers looking for quality yet effective diagnostic device.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
I just got some good news from Autel...
They have located and fixed a bug with their servers.
Anyone who has lost operation with Beta 2.01.54 - Please try it again.
If yours was broken, and now works, please let me know so I can provide feedback to Autel.
He did not elaborate on the nature of the bug, but they definitely found something and seemed certain it would correct this issue.
@Rangavasu - Your serial number should now be active also !
* We now have a total of 34 AP200 users in this Forum *
They have located and fixed a bug with their servers.
Anyone who has lost operation with Beta 2.01.54 - Please try it again.
If yours was broken, and now works, please let me know so I can provide feedback to Autel.
He did not elaborate on the nature of the bug, but they definitely found something and seemed certain it would correct this issue.
@Rangavasu - Your serial number should now be active also !
* We now have a total of 34 AP200 users in this Forum *
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Nice. Thank you for getting Autel to look at the issues. Yes I got the update.
Hazem Abu Asab
New Member
Oh yeah
Just tried and it is upgraded finally on both my phones hope to try it tomorrow on 2 different cars
Thank you mrfixit
So I've now done two full charges from 26% and 28% from the app all the way till it stopped charging and it still is at 55AH. The battery SoC had gone down to 19% at one point but I did not do a full charge up. Your suggestion probably is to do it a few more times.. I will try my best.. but it's pretty hard with how I use the car to time it just right that I can both get the battery down below 30% AND have time to do a full charge up. It may take till the winter when it's easier to use the battery up for this to resolve... and if it doesn't.. maybe I have an immortal battery!
i see, from the Battery Capacity Google Sheet, that you measured the Battery Capacity with an AP200 in March just after the Clarity Bata was made available. The AP200 with the MaxiAp200 Android app only displays the Battery Capacity to the tenths of an AH. This makes it harder to see small changes in the Battery Capacity using the Ap200. The Car Scanner app using an Elm 327 reader displays the Battery capacity in hundredths. Nevertheless, it is my experience that the Clarity PHEV HV battery losses about 0.04-0.06 AH per month just from aging. So, you should have seen some change in the past six months.
But, maybe you are very lucky and bought a Clarity PHEV that has an exceptional battery. As an experiment, I suggest letting the SOC go down until you have just a few estimated EV miles left. It could be that my experience with what SOC value triggers the capacity measurement is not the same for your Clarity.
LeoP
But, maybe you are very lucky and bought a Clarity PHEV that has an exceptional battery. As an experiment, I suggest letting the SOC go down until you have just a few estimated EV miles left. It could be that my experience with what SOC value triggers the capacity measurement is not the same for your Clarity.
LeoP
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
I would recommend running the EV miles all the way to zero. The car is designed for this, and will automatically switch to HV. When the EV range is zero, the SOC is still nominally around 10% because of the built-in buffering. This insures that the BMS literally does a 'full' charge cycle and there will be no doubt that whatever algorithm it uses, it should be able to recalculate capacity.
I will try my best but at the same time I don't want to be driving on HV the entire day because I am trying to do this as I bought this car to drive in EV. I also only level 1 charge (for full charges) which is the other issue with doing a full cycle as at 10% SoC I need it to plug in for more than 10 hours and I actually BARELY have this amount of time overnight... Actually I don't know how long it might take for a full charge form 10%.
Technically you shouldn't need to do full cycles from as low as possible to as high as possible, as tracking current vs voltage at any point should be enough, but it depends how sophisticated the algorithm is. Laptop battery BMS have limited computational and data storage capabilities.. though they have been getting more sophisticated.
Really the BMS in an EV should be sophisticated enough to keep adjusting the capacity calculations continually as otherwise all kinds of dangerous things can happen.. like fires.. which I suppose HAS been occurring in several EVs and the manual does not recommend full cycles to calibrate like they used to in cell and laptop manuals (I'm wondering if the BMS in cells and laptops have actually gotten to the point where full cycles are no longer needed for calibration as I haven't seen that recommendation in a manual for years now).
Also the capacity calculations are required for accurate estimates in the GOM. And I can vouch that my GOM is pretty accurate. Anecdotally as well, my EV range, which is also reflected on the GOM has gone down around 15% from when I first purchased it (In the summers they used to peak at aroujnd 119km, now they peak around 105km, currently is 98km at full charge, 105 I have hit on the GOM this summer). Some of course could just be my driving style, which has changed, but I have to assume some is from range loss.
putting my info in the sheet. 2018 touring model. 57,189 miles. about 85% electric = 48610.65 miles electric. Battery capacity is 48.7 (mid day but when measured 1st thing in morning was 47.7). = 88.5% capacity. I also own a 2015 leaf that we bought used 2.5 years ago. SOH at that time (not sure if same meaning was 92%, now 90.3% with 69000 miles. Although I love my clarity, this is pretty disappointing to me. A couple things probably play factor. Although for 1st year, I never charged about 90%, we have gotten lazy. my wife doesn't like to calculate how long we need to have it charging to hit that so gets fully charged 1-2 times a day. We live on the top of a steeper where the car regenerates 4-5 miles (if <90% charged) for most of drives before starting to decline. most of the time get home at end of day with 1-2 miles of estimated EV range but probably about 20 times a year run it down to gas kicking in before getting home while going up the steep hill. Never drops below 2 bars. I figure it is probably the overcharging on the way down the hill that has hurt our capacity. I wish there was a way to set the charge to stop at a certain percent as I think we could do that more regularly. I initially did that to just save electricity and be more environmentally friendly given the recharge at the start of our drives, not to try to save battery. Wish I could go back and check if that did anything or not. As noted in other posts, I am not sure. It seems like most of our estimated range dropped the first year and has been fairly steady since.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
I don't think this should dissapoint you at all. Looking at your data point on the spreadsheet, I would judge that you are slightly better than average.
Keep in mind that a PHEV is a different paradigm than a BEV. The PHEV will experience more charge cycles than a BEV with the same number of accumulated miles because of it's shorter EV range. There is some controversy here between those who attempt to 'baby' their HV battery and those who don't. My opinion is that I am not smarter than the Honda battery engineers. They designed in an apropriate amount of bufferng to protect the battery life, and I'm going to drive the car in a way that is most convenient for me (not in a way that I may perceive is better for the battery).
Also, please realize that the Clarity will NOT overcharge the battery. If you encounter a downhill scenario with a full battery, it will start the ICE and dump the energy that way. That energy is lost, but it does not attempt to put into the battery unless there is room for it.
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Fair. After I put the data into the sheet I saw it was on the higher side of average for battery health. My dissappointment is that I want to drive as little on gas as possible. I hope the degradation will decrease and level out. Will track. If not, in about 6 years the EV only range will be less than out usually daily need if we charge twice a day. (Ie would be about 35 miles on full charge). Would only have about 170k miles and not be as usable. Although I think the car is the most “luxury” I have owned, I bought it for environmental reasons. When it gets below that level, I won’t be able to charge only at greenest times. Still happy I bought it but would have hoped for 250k miles or more before I hit that point. Again- not disappointed in the car. I love it. Just disappointed it may not last as long as I hoped. Doesn’t seem to have leveled off on capacity like the leaf has
BEVs have no where near (or possibly any) buffer built in to their systems to the extent PHEVs do. You can't really equate the two.
Maybe I'm not understanding things correctly, but with buffering it seems to me that the range estimates should stay pretty much consistent until the battery capacity drops below maybe about 80-85%. Don't you think that the GOM is based on the amount of battery capacity we are actually allowed to use?
Maybe I'm not understanding things correctly, but with buffering it seems to me that the range estimates should stay pretty much consistent until the battery capacity drops below maybe about 80-85%. Don't you think that the GOM is based on the amount of battery capacity we are actually allowed to use?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Although I can't support this with facts, I think the buffer would not become available for use as the capacity declines. Let's say that the buffering is 10% on the bottom and 15% on the top. That leaves 75% for you to use when driving. If the total capacity drops over time by 20%, then the vehicle still reserves 25% of this 'new' degraded capacity, and your range will drop by 20% too. I don't think the vehicle would 'give up' it's buffer to keep your range the same because that would further accelerate battery degradation.
So I do think that the GOM is based on the amount of energy that we are actually allowed to use, but this value goes down watt-for-watt as the battery degrades.
Obviously it largely depends on what the company decides to adopt in terms of battery management. It's not true about the non-existent buffers on BEVs.. it really depends. Some teslas famously have 0 buffer, but most newer BEVs all have buffers built in as far as I know.
I remember seeing one car manufacturer disclose their battery management plan and it showed that it tries to maintain the range (by moving the usable capacity range, i.e. lowering the lower buffer slightly to compensate) up until 15% of the battery capacity degrades then it does a sudden range adjustment which then tries to maintain that new range until finally the degredation eats up almost all the top buffer and then it starts to adjust the range proportionally down.
Having said that, anecdotal evidence with the clarity suggests that as Mrfixit posits, the clarity just seems to proportionally reduce range as capacity decreases. This is supported by the fact that people on this forum have seen the total kWh of a full charge cycle decrease as time goes by. I personally have also seen the amount of kWh per 15% increment on the app decrease, resulting in an overall faster charge time as time has progressed. It also lines up to about a 15% decrease in capacity for me.
Hazem Abu Asab
New Member
Well
I have tested 2 cars
Both r 2018 Canadian touring
White with around 7400 miles
The other has 15k miles on it
Both have prolonged parking period since they came from Canada to Jordan
Both found to have 2 bars battery only...
After testing the capacity both showed 55Ah
I feel that these data is not actual!
I think if we need to get a true real data, we need to charge\dischage multiple times then we can get a true reading
I have tested 2 cars
Both r 2018 Canadian touring
White with around 7400 miles
The other has 15k miles on it
Both have prolonged parking period since they came from Canada to Jordan
Both found to have 2 bars battery only...
After testing the capacity both showed 55Ah
I feel that these data is not actual!
I think if we need to get a true real data, we need to charge\dischage multiple times then we can get a true reading
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that these vehicles have NOT been through multiple charge / discharge cycles since arriving in Jordan?
I agree that it is likely that the reading will probably not update without going through some charge / discharge cycles.
Hazem Abu Asab
New Member
Yes they haven't been charged since at least 6 months and this is why I thinks those readings r not true
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