You may be on target for a new battery under warranty. I may be on the same path at 49.9 in a 2019 with 15,000 miles. It is understood that degradation is not linear, it if you’re covered by the 10/150,000 warranty it sure seems obtainable to reach 36.6.
Budget Battery Capacity Readout
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You may be on target for a new battery under warranty. I may be on the same path at 49.9 in a 2019 with 15,000 miles. It is understood that degradation is not linear, it if you’re covered by the 10/150,000 warranty it sure seems obtainable to reach 36.6.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
44.5 Ah is still 81% of the new capacity, and with 56K miles, I would certainly not feel like this vehicle is "on target" for a replacement.
It will certainly be interesting to characterize the non-linear behavior of the degradation going forward now that more owners are able to track this themselves.
JustAnotherPoorDriver
Active Member
Somewhat late the party here (I'm reading through the entire message stream trying to find out how to get to the custom "add a sensor" screen in the app), but I still have an OBD extension cord with switch from my old car (used to make sure I didn't drain the battery) which may work here. I'll let everyone know when i get a chance
I see it as having lost 19% of capacity in just over 1/3 of the miles, and less than 1/3 of the time covered by the CA warranty. Seven years and nearly 100,000 miles remain for the battery to lose an additional 14-15% of the original capacity, which would trigger a warranty claim.
Reaching that number, 7 years from now, would create a non-linear path. It is entirely possible and, in my opinion, quite likely. Only time will tell.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Glass half full / Glass half empty.
Even you will clearly accept that this is probably not linear.
Yes, time will tell.
It is a little ironic to consider what the "success criteria" might be. Some (including myself) would say that success would be that the battery would "outlast" the defined criteria to beyond 150K miles. Others would say that success would be having the battery fail, so that you could get a free new one.
Just as a note, warranty does not guarantee a "new" battery. Only one that is still within warranty specs. Your replacement battery could be at 75% (or 80% or ??) of the original 55 Ah.
This came as a surprise to some LEAF bowners getting warranty replacements.
I’m not clear on what you’re saying here. At best, with the 44.5Ah battery, we have 2 data points, 55Ah, if we accept the new battery rating, and 44.5Ah. Two points make a straight line. So, at this point, it is linear. Until we get a 3rd reading, who know what shape the line will take?
A battery at 36.7Ah after exactly 10 years, would be a success for Honda. A battery at 36.5Ah after exactly 10 years, would be a success for the owner of the vehicle as it would be replaced under warranty with a battery having a greater capacity. As a vehicle owner, I’d opt for the latter, if the battery was on the verge of becoming a warranty claim.
Regardless, it would have more capacity than the one being replaced.
Who knows what battery technology will be available in 8-10 years? Will it be worth the effort for Honda to salvage and recondition batteries using the current technology to assemble replacement batteries for warranty claims? Will there be some revolutionary technology that allows them to install a 30kWh battery, in the same space, at half the cost of the original battery?
We should have a super capacitor good for 200 miles that will cost $100 and fit in the glove box by then, right?
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
I have never said that we have demonstrated non-linearity. But rather that we expect non-linearity based on the science and chemistry. We are now positioned to perform the demonstration going forward.
MrFixit
Well-Known Member
Quite true... Warranties are often disappointing.
I could imagine Honda collecting all the 'failed' battery packs, and Frankensteining cells / modules together in order to make spec compliant warranty replacements. Far from a "new" battery.
There is the possibility of Adopting newer, better technology, but this seems much more likely for a high volume vehicle rather than a technology demonstrator like the Clarity. 3rd-party refurbished replacement batteries are common for the Prius
Right now, battery technology is very much a discriminator for the various competing auto companies. It would be great if we ever reach a point where these batteries become standardized commodity items. You could buy generic cells / modules at the local Auto Zone or even Walmart !
That's about as likely as all auto companies standardizing on a specific ICE design that all would use.
bpratt
Active Member
I just posted this in the Autel AP200 Thread. Got tired of waiting for the beta code:
"I finally decided, not being a patient person, to purchase the Vgate iCar Pro BLE4.0 from Amazon for $29. I installed the free Carscanner app on my phone and just got a reading of 51.94. Not bad for a Clarity that was manufactured on 10/'17 and purchased on 12/30/2017. I only have 13,500 miles on it with 11,000 EV and 2,500 HV."
"I finally decided, not being a patient person, to purchase the Vgate iCar Pro BLE4.0 from Amazon for $29. I installed the free Carscanner app on my phone and just got a reading of 51.94. Not bad for a Clarity that was manufactured on 10/'17 and purchased on 12/30/2017. I only have 13,500 miles on it with 11,000 EV and 2,500 HV."
How do you find EV miles?
The old fashioned way. Probably the easiest method is to keep track of fuel purchases and multiply the number of gallons by 40. This would give you a fairly accurate number for miles driven in HV mode at 40mpg. Subtract that number from the total miles driven and you will have a fairly accurate number for miles driven in EV.
I believe Honda uses the Panasonic 18650 cells. They can be ordered online. The ~48V, 1.22kWh modules are available from some auto dismantling facilities and back up solar power suppliers. It would be quite a project to swap out a cell or module.
The system used by NIO is the only one I’m aware of that is designed specifically for a quick battery swap. They claim 5 minutes. They sell a “batteries not included” car and owners can either “rent” the battery for a monthly fee or pay a monthly subscription fee and have the option to swap the battery up to 6 times per month. You don’t have to pay for the cost of the battery up front and there is no concern over degradation.
After discovering my 32-bit phone won't work with the Autel database, I read @Eva Farkas' success story and tried to duplicate it.
Bought the Vgate OBD2 Bluetooth Diagnostic Scan tool
Loaded Car Scanner app
Installed all of Mr.Fixit's PIDs
Drum roll please...
Cannot connect
Before I could try to connect I was required to choose a connection profile, I chose the first one: "Honda OBD-II / EOBD" because the red text at the bottom of the screen reads "OBD-II/EOBD (first item) shows only basic OBD-II sensors. Tap it if your car is not on the list." Clarity is not on the list.
After the Vgate dongle failed to connect, I tried the second connection profile:
"OBD-II / EOBD + AT (CAN)
Only for Honda cars with CAN 29bit ISO 15765-4 protocol"
Instead of failing to connect, this time I was required to enter a Bluetooth paring number. Where do I get a pairing number for a device with no display? Should I have received documentation with this dongle?
At this rate my Clarity's battery will be kaput before I get a chance to check its Battery Capacity signal.
JustAnotherPoorDriver
Active Member
Just checking in. My 2018 (bought december of 2018), which has ~12k miles (work from home in COVID) and gets used 2/3 electric, 1/3 gas when I'm commuting (60+ mile round trip, 3 days a week for part of the year) has a reading of 52.9, which seems very very good.
JustAnotherPoorDriver
Active Member
Go to your Android/iOS bluetooth and pair a new device. There will be an iOS and an Android virtual bluetooth, pair with that (1234 is the code from the paperwork). THEN start the car scanner app, choose the virtual device, and connect
The dongle instructions are on the paper, below the device in the package.
There was nothing in this Amazon package other than the dongle:
But with the support of you forum members, I thought I'd get away without having any documentation. Thanks to both of you!
I started the Clarity, selected Honda Hybrid this time and entered 1234 as the pairing and the connection was made! Then I went to Setup > Sensors > Import from file and imported the 2021-03-09 09-01-20.cbz file. I thought I was finally ready to obtain my Clarity's Battery Capacity reading.
However, when I looked at the dashboard, I saw CoolantTemp rather than BattCap in the bottom right corner. So I went to the Sensors list. There I saw all kinds of temperatures, State of Charge (98%), HV battery current (switching back and forth between 0.55 A to 0.46A HV every couple of seconds), and HV Battery Cell Max State of Charge (98.84%).
HV Battery Usable Capacity is zero.