Battery Recall 196 - Dead after recharging

[gonzo]

Well, everyone judges the producer through the prism of personal experience. And if he has none, he adopts (or not) the point of view of those who have lived their own problems (or have not, so they're satisfied). However, each badly handled case, each month of fruitless waiting for any scrap of response from the manufacturer when you cannot use your own car, and instead drive a graciously assigned "stink station wagon", not only insult the customer's dignity, but deeply undermine the credibility of a large corporation that such matters should be dealt with with one hand and with a smile on his face. For me personally, it is very disappointing how Hyundai treats not only customers in the US or Canada, but above all in Korea. If they don't respect their own homies, how can they still be trusted? I have successfully driven and still drive four different Kias myself, and now, occasional, Kona electric. And if I say that I am deeply disappointed with Hyundai's attitude in the above-mentioned cases, I would not say anything. This completely ruins the positive image of this company in my eyes so far, although I have not had the slightest problem with it myself. Apparently, Hyundai has systemic image management problems to make such mistakes in such a sensitive segment of its production. It is not enough to produce reliable and practical cars at a reasonable price (this does not apply, of course, to EVs whose prices are like those from the moon), it is also necessary to ensure that the masses of customers do not receive signals that undermine trust and destroy this good impression. Our Kona electric drives like a dream? So what, if I know that if one of its inherent flaws is revealed, we will face a tough deal with the dealer? And in my country there is no lemon law and customers are not treated as well as in the US or Canada. And something else - the icing on this sour cake is the fear of what will happen when I want to sell my EV in after a couple of years. I'm afraid I will be left with a pile of dangerous scrap metal. I will not be able to sell it to anyone but I would have to spend a fortune for it's disposal. If the battery dies for good after the warranty period, buying a new one will make no sense and I will not get back a cent, at most I will pay extra for disposal. It's not a nice prospect.

Couldn't agree more. If your product fails to work reliably when still under that warranty period, the company should be going above and beyond with customer service to try and salvage their reputation with the customer. Having the customer keep a vehicle they know is unsafe, unreliable, and likely loosing value fast is not an acceptable way of handling this situation - especially in the home country of the vehicle manufacturer. Hopefully the class action law suit has a suitable outcome but the fact it had to go to a lawsuit for people to get compensated for Hyundai's failures is another sign of poor customer service.

 

[Markku Heikkinen]

Thanks for all information here, is difficult to find information my own language, and our local Hyundai dealer or service centers. I feel that many electric car systems are new and not knowing... I have a 12V battery problem before Christmas and wait four weeks Hyundai brand battery and when replacing the 12V battery, next trip happens same again and now wait for high voltage battery the first week, hope that the battery coming soon and I get my Kona witch stop working about 300 km from my home. Both times same error message by a fast-charging station. Check vehicle electric system and gear not connect. Both times Kona transport towing track to a service place.

 

[Lars]

Boy, we all have our individual experiences. I had an i-Miev that I bought in Spring of 2012. In the Spring of 2013 the battery completely failed. It took them months to replace the battery, they had to have it shipped from South Korea and, because of restrictions on shipping lithium batteries, they shipped an entire car. I had to drive a smelly, ancient station wagon that the dealer used for picking up parts for about three months, maybe more. It was awful. Here's a picture I took of the battery and equipment that was sent to the Mitsubishi dealer for my car.

View attachment 10543

Meanwhile, I've had my Kona electric since March 2019, it has 25,000 miles on it and zero battery problems, it's been a dream.

Yes, it is always "why me"?
My car was ready last Friday, after 3 months , charged up, ready to go. But I loaned it to them car for over the weekend use. Call me crazy but I wanted to make sure she will charge up again, not falter in my garage as apparently happened to some on this board. The sales manager put on it about 40 km. I picked up my car last night, it was charged to 100% and had a guesstimated range of 448 km. Mind you it was -10C.
While I was separated from my Kona I had a Sonata, a loaded Tuscon and a fully loaded gasoline Kona as loaners. For me, neither was as enjoyable as the Kona EV. Boy I love to drive my car! We did a 115km tour around on nice country roads today to celebrate.

The service manager told me that beside the new battery they also installed three recalls/updates. They did not get all the paperwork from Hyundai so I don't know the details. I am supposed to get a copy, describing all the work done, once all completed.

I did notice some changes on the user interface. So far I noticed the following changes/new stuff:
1. 'Energy Flow' image which reminded me to my Prius and
2. The 'Auto Regeneration' notice below the ODO. This is a strange one. Since I like one pedal driving, I set all three drive modes to Level 3 Regen. Still this Auto Regeneration message shows up. Not particularly upsetting but I would like to know Auto Regeneration really is. So far I did not figure out how to show Regen 3.
3. I was looking for the much discussed 'Winter Mode' setting, but so far I could not find it. I think they got rid of it. If so, it was smart move!

 

[electriceddy]

Yes, it is always "why me"?
My car was ready last Friday, after 3 months , charged up, ready to go. But I loaned it to them car for over the weekend use. Call me crazy but I wanted to make sure she will charge up again, not falter in my garage as apparently happened to some on this board. The sales manager put on it about 40 km. I picked up my car last night, it was charged to 100% and had a guesstimated range of 448 km. Mind you it was -10C.
While I was separated from my Kona I had a Sonata, a loaded Tuscon and a fully loaded gasoline Kona as loaners. For me, neither was as enjoyable as the Kona EV. Boy I love to drive my car! We did a 115km tour around on nice country roads today to celebrate.

The service manager told me that beside the new battery they also installed three recalls/updates. They did not get all the paperwork from Hyundai so I don't know the details. I am supposed to get a copy, describing all the work done, once all completed.

I did notice some changes on the user interface. So far I noticed the following changes/new stuff:
1. 'Energy Flow' image which reminded me to my Prius and
2. The 'Auto Regeneration' notice below the ODO. This is a strange one. Since I like one pedal driving, I set all three drive modes to Level 3 Regen. Still this Auto Regeneration message shows up. Not particularly upsetting but I would like to know Auto Regeneration really is. So far I did not figure out how to show Regen 3.
3. I was looking for the much discussed 'Winter Mode' setting, but so far I could not find it. I think they got rid of it. If so, it was smart move!


View attachment 10602

Happy to hear your joy ride is back.
It's probably been a while since you drove it, those screen are of course configurable with the steering wheel settings. Its too bad we never found out the ROM ID and production date of your defective pack knowing the car had a post March/20 production date. If you would check the label on the new one and report back, that may help solve/diagnose this ongoing issue. Look forward to see the paperwork on the TSBs as well- did you notice if your EVSE (granny charger) has a rubber sock on it?

 

[Lars]

Happy to hear your joy ride is back.
It's probably been a while since you drove it, those screen are of course configurable with the steering wheel settings. Its too bad we never found out the ROM ID and production date of your defective pack knowing the car had a post March/20 production date. If you would check the label on the new one and report back, that may help solve/diagnose this ongoing issue. Look forward to see the paperwork on the TSBs as well- did you notice if your EVSE (granny charger) has a rubber sock on it?

I know I can manipulate some of the display elements with the steering wheel buttons. The "Energy Flow" image is an add-on to the exiting list you can pick to display. I am rather interested to see the power used kWh/100km.
I sent a note to the service manager asking for ROM/battery info info. As far as I know the bad battery is still at the dealer. The label on new battery now may be hidden. I was told previously that they had to remove the battery to get to that label. I don't know. In any case I will send you a copy of the paperwork when I get it.

I never use the 'granny charger'. It is in the car for extreme emergencies. I do have a Clipper Creek L2 charger on the top of it with a NEMA 14-50 plug. They both fit nicely in the little bag supplied for the granny charger.
I will check if granny has a rubber sock tomorrow. Why?

 

[Tomek]

Auto-Regeneration seems to me only when you brake by holding down the left paddle. Above approx. 87% charge, a warning signal will sound and a message that the battery is too full for recuperation. I have the impression that the most enjoyable ride is when you turn off the recuperation (you are sailing) and if you need to brake, hold the left paddle shorter or longer. You can easily feel the moment when the engine braking becomes too hard and release the pressure. I still have the Winter Mode option, but I have not noticed that it works at all, even despite the negative temperatures (° C), maybe the updates are removing it.

 

[ttsherpa]

Auto-Regeneration seems to me only when you brake by holding down the left paddle. Above approx. 87% charge, a warning signal will sound and a message that the battery is too full for recuperation. I have the impression that the most enjoyable ride is when you turn off the recuperation (you are sailing) and if you need to brake, hold the left paddle shorter or longer. You can easily feel the moment when the engine braking becomes too hard and release the pressure. I still have the Winter Mode option, but I have not noticed that it works at all, even despite the negative temperatures (° C), maybe the updates are removing it.

When you set the regen level to 0 in Kona, it still has some regen: you're not fully sailing.
As I was told, in Ioniq 28 kWh, Level 0 really was/is no regen at all, that is pure sailing like in Neutral.
I would like to do the same in my Kona

 

[Tomek]

Well, you are probably right. It is enough to take a look at the screen that settles energy consumption, which even when sailing shows a low energy recovery of <2kW. It's a bit weak and unreasonable.

 

[electriceddy]

Above approx. 87% charge, a warning signal will sound and a message that the battery is too full for recuperation.

Never had this happen to me, must be really cold when this occurs. Always had regen no matter 100% SOC or 90%. What temperatures does this happen and what is the warning symbol displayed, couldn't find one in the manual other than the "Low outside temperature may limit power output - charge EV battery" and "Low EV battery temperature - power limited" symbols.
I am assuming at a set cold temperature, the car will attempt to protect charging the battery when producing too much regen using the same indicators (and an additional audio warning), as the regen levels are much higher than any the highest (77kW) DC charging level.

 

[Tomek]

I don't have access to the car right now, so I won't give you the verbatim wording of the message, but the thing is that when braking with the left paddle, it squeaks and shows a warning that auto-recuperation is not working due to the battery charge level being too high. But of course the recuperation works normally, which you can see on the central screen in the window showing where our hardly loaded kilowatts are going, and the car slows down as always. The warning appears each time you brake the paddle until the battery charge level drops below approx. 85-87%. It surprised me a bit at first, but it didn't bother me that much, so I stopped paying attention. Next time I will try to take a picture, or look at the manual, maybe there will be something there.

 

[Lars]

When you set the regen level to 0 in Kona, it still has some regen: you're not fully sailing.
As I was told, in Ioniq 28 kWh, Level 0 really was/is no regen at all, that is pure sailing like in Neutral.
I would like to do the same in my Kona

First I never use the paddle. I LOVE "one pedal driving". It is the most energy efficient way to drive an electric car. (Even if Volkswagen disagrees.) We got used to drive without the clutch pedal, no we should get use to drop, well not quite, the break pedal.
On the new software you can't set Level 0 Regen on Kona. There are options 1; 2 or 3 only. See the image below. The other pictures show the 'Eco Potential' at various regen settings.
At regen = 0 the Eco Potential would be 0. Nil, Nada.
Regen is an EV thing, it has environmental and $$ (saves on breaks!) benefits. Get used to it.

 

[Lars]

Never had this happen to me, must be really cold when this occurs. Always had regen no matter 100% SOC or 90%. What temperatures does this happen and what is the warning symbol displayed, couldn't find one in the manual other than the "Low outside temperature may limit power output - charge EV battery" and "Low EV battery temperature - power limited" symbols.
I am assuming at a set cold temperature, the car will attempt to protect charging the battery when producing too much regen using the same indicators (and an additional audio warning), as the regen levels are much higher than any the highest (77kW) DC charging level.

This is nuts! This car, all cars today, are full of computers. They should automatically set the regen rate when the battery is "too full". Now that I think about it! Maybe they fixed this in the new software and that is the reason I for the 'Automatic' regen display under my ODO. Now I recall when I picked up the car on Monday, Feb 1, it was charged to 100%. I stopped on the way home and set the regen mode to 3 and still noticed the Auto regen display. which was unexpected. BUT regen still worked. I did pretty good with one pedal driving all the way home. Go figure.

 

[Lars]

I know I can manipulate some of the display elements with the steering wheel buttons. The "Energy Flow" image is an add-on to the exiting list you can pick to display. I am rather interested to see the power used kWh/100km.
I sent a note to the service manager asking for ROM/battery info info. As far as I know the bad battery is still at the dealer. The label on new battery now may be hidden. I was told previously that they had to remove the battery to get to that label. I don't know. In any case I will send you a copy of the paperwork when I get it.

I never use the 'granny charger'. It is in the car for extreme emergencies. I do have a Clipper Creek L2 charger on the top of it with a NEMA 14-50 plug. They both fit nicely in the little bag supplied for the granny charger.
I will check if granny has a rubber sock tomorrow. Why?

First my granny charger has a rubber underwear.
Second, are you ready? My dealer called me today that I should stop driving the car immediately because the battery should have been mounted with new mounting bolts. Hyundai Canada told the dealer that the battery mounting bolts are "one time use" bolts. They took the car back, gave me an other loaner. Of course they don't not have these bolts and their ETA is about a week.
I was promised that they will try to read the info you are interested in.

 

[Lars]

Happy to hear your joy ride is back.
It's probably been a while since you drove it, those screen are of course configurable with the steering wheel settings. Its too bad we never found out the ROM ID and production date of your defective pack knowing the car had a post March/20 production date. If you would check the label on the new one and report back, that may help solve/diagnose this ongoing issue. Look forward to see the paperwork on the TSBs as well- did you notice if your EVSE (granny charger) has a rubber sock on it?

I am, grounded once more! Please read my notes below. More details there. Here is the label info from my old HV battery.

 

[Lars]

Never had this happen to me, must be really cold when this occurs. Always had regen no matter 100% SOC or 90%. What temperatures does this happen and what is the warning symbol displayed, couldn't find one in the manual other than the "Low outside temperature may limit power output - charge EV battery" and "Low EV battery temperature - power limited" symbols.
I am assuming at a set cold temperature, the car will attempt to protect charging the battery when producing too much regen using the same indicators (and an additional audio warning), as the regen levels are much higher than any the highest (77kW) DC charging level.

I noted my experience with the 'Auto Regeneration' display after software upgrade. See items #51&52 above. On the picture my battery was at ~80%. The temp was ~-3C. Surely there is some sort of solution to apply regen when needed and protect the battery from overcharging by somehow 'burning off' the excess power. Is this the function of the 'Auto Regeneration' in the new software? Would this theory make sense? It would also eliminate the need for the confusing messages.

 

[R P]

Auto Regen gets shut off with a software update. Happened every time I took it in. But simple to turn on again on the steering wheel dash settings. Then the Auto Regeneration display will turn blue when you come up behind another car, and will slow the car with regen if you get too close.

This Auto Regen is not to be confused with the paddles or the regen settings for each Drive mode which are set up on the big HU screen on the right. There I set my ECO mode to regen level 3. The amount of regen applied when slowing/braking by paddle, by brakes, or by just letting off on the throttle is displayed on the bottom left side of the dash. Since I have my ECO regen set to 3, I will see 3 bars light up when I let off the throttle.

My apologies if this is not news to you. But I did not quite understand your discussion about auto regen.

 

[Lars]

Auto Regen gets shut off with a software update. Happened every time I took it in. But simple to turn on again on the steering wheel dash settings. Then the Auto Regeneration display will turn blue when you come up behind another car, and will slow the car with regen if you get too close.

This Auto Regen is not to be confused with the paddles or the regen settings for each Drive mode which are set up on the big HU screen on the right. There I set my ECO mode to regen level 3. The amount of regen applied when slowing/braking by paddle, by brakes, or by just letting off on the throttle is displayed on the bottom left side of the dash. Since I have my ECO regen set to 3, I will see 3 bars light up when I let off the throttle.

My apologies if this is not news to you. But I did not quite understand your discussion about auto regen.

No need to apologize, we are all learning here. Before I left my car at the dealer in October I never noticed 'Auto Regen' on my display. God, that was three months ago. So I admit it is possible that it was there. From some reason it just struck me after I regained ownership of my car - if only for a couple of days
However, after the upgrade I noticed that, as you said, the Auto Regen message did turn green from time to time. It seemed to turn green when I was letting off the throttle to slow down. Which intuitively made sense to me. I wish I could experiment but I lost may car again, waiting for screws!

Not sure where I lost you with my discussion. Let me know.

 

[electriceddy]

I am, grounded once more! Please read my notes below. More details there. Here is the label info from my old HV battery.

View attachment 10614

Thanks...just checking your battery manufacture date . The date of 2020/06/17 on your old pack is past the recall car manufacture date of March/2020 which is not really the news I was anticipating. The BMS ROM ID is identical to mine as is the Part#37501-K4054.
The only difference between mine and your old one is the manufacture date - mine being 2020/8/27, ~2 months later production than yours. Not sure how long they stock the individual cells before assembly into module/pack format, but I am hoping they may used some cells possibly manufactured before March/20 in your old pack, and the cells in mine are assembled with later manufactured ones (hopefully without defects as but I guess only time will tell. It is nice to keep track of these things, just to provide a little more clarity for the answer to the chicken or egg scenario; was it a manufacturing defect that was found and corrected or BMS issues (overcharging/overvoltage/cell leakage thru insulation separators etc).
Thanks for the update. BTW - what is the label on your new one?
EDIT- you must have changed your previous post, sorry to hear about the bolts, that would drive me nuts
Hopefully they get the new ones in quick.

 

[Lars]

Thanks...just checking your battery manufacture date . The date of 2020/06/17 on your old pack is past the recall car manufacture date of March/2020 which is not really the news I was anticipating. The BMS ROM ID is identical to mine as is the Part#37501-K4054.
The only difference between mine and your old one is the manufacture date - mine being 2020/8/27, ~2 months later production than yours. Not sure how long they stock the individual cells before assembly into module/pack format, but I am hoping they may used some cells possibly manufactured before March/20 in your old pack, and the cells in mine are assembled with later manufactured ones (hopefully without defects as but I guess only time will tell. It is nice to keep track of these things, just to provide a little more clarity for the answer to the chicken or egg scenario; was it a manufacturing defect that was found and corrected or BMS issues (overcharging/overvoltage/cell leakage thru insulation separators etc).
Thanks for the update. BTW - what is the label on your new one?
EDIT- you must have changed your previous post, sorry to hear about the bolts, that would drive me nuts
Hopefully they get the new ones in quick.

I asked if they could possibly read the label from the new battery. If it is indeed covered now, we are out of luck.

 

[electriceddy]

No need to apologize, we are all learning here. Before I left my car at the dealer in October I never noticed 'Auto Regen' on my display. God, that was three months ago. So I admit it is possible that it was there. From some reason it just struck me after I regained ownership of my car - if only for a couple of days
However, after the upgrade I noticed that, as you said, the Auto Regen message did turn green from time to time. It seemed to turn green when I was letting off the throttle to slow down. Which intuitively made sense to me. I wish I could experiment but I lost may car again, waiting for screws!

Not sure where I lost you with my discussion. Let me know.

On that Smart Regeneration System ( Auto regen as displayed on the dash) you will only notice it's affects if your regen setting in the drive mode screen are less than 3 (max) and you are close to the target vehicle in front of you. When it turns blue from white (detects and goes into operation) the levels will increase as you approach closer. I used to keep my settings at max so no affect felt, but now I keep the Ecco regen settings at 1 and the affects are there. My original Kona EV had a clicking sound due to gearbox bearings, and I am trying to avoid that happening to my newer model by keeping the lower setting, again - time will tell.