Recall 196 now shows on US Hyundai Recall website..

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I must really charge mine up to 100% some time. Have never done it. Build date is Dec 27, 2018. Maybe it will blow up, and I get a new car... Don't want to lose my house though. I keep waiting for an opportunity to do it, just before a longer drive. Don't want to leave it sitting at 100% for too long.

No recall showing up yet for my VIN. I think I will get mine done right away, though. Don't want a bomb sitting in my garage, or in my driveway.

On the bright side, still no clicking after my motor change. Still only 5000 kms though since. When it reaches another 20K kms, then I will assume fixed for good.
 
As mentioned it seems unlikely it's a manufacturing fault in LGs side. I feel a BMS programming fault/bug is more likely. That makes it likely that they will update the BMS and double check on cell voltage/condition whatever thingy-bob and we're good to go.

A 100% charge limit is very unlikely to happen. LG is very adamant about it not being a manufacturing problem which is their bread and butter, so if it was it would be in their interest to get it fixed ASAP.

I'm very certain that my car won't blow up in my driveway. So I'm just going to wait and see what they come up with and go from there.

No need to stress out right now. [emoji6][emoji106]
 
TRSmith said:
Does anyone know what the recall actually entails? Are the reports of reducing battery capacity via software true? Is it just an inspection of the pack?

My VIN showed the recall on the Hyundai website, but not in NHTSA's system, for whatever reason.
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There are at least two forum members who have reported their estimated range has dropped significantly after the update. However one of them has been reporting the estimated range is gradually increasing again after repeated charge cycles. The hypothesis seems to be that the changes to the BMS software messes with the range estimate (perhaps by deleting history data), and the GOM is temporarily inaccurate, rather than there being actual loss of range. This is based on a data set of one so far, though.

Once again, remember that the 20% reduction rumor is based on a single Korean news article that was edited to remove the part that mentioned it shortly after it was posted. As far as I'm aware, there are no official statements or other news articles discussing it, and we have one anecdotal account on this forum that suggests it's not true.

I guess what I'm trying to say is; Don't panic.
 
Genevamech said:
There are at least two forum members who have reported their estimated range has dropped significantly after the update. However one of them has been reporting the estimated range is gradually increasing again after repeated charge cycles. The hypothesis seems to be that the changes to the BMS software messes with the range estimate (perhaps by deleting history data), and the GOM is temporarily inaccurate, rather than there being actual loss of range. This is based on a data set of one so far, though.

Once again, remember that the 20% reduction rumor is based on a single Korean news article that was edited to remove the part that mentioned it shortly after it was posted. As far as I'm aware, there are no official statements or other news articles discussing it, and we have one anecdotal account on this forum that suggests it's not true.

I guess what I'm trying to say is; Don't panic.
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The decrease after the update is based on the fact that the GoM is reset to it's original state when the car is now which may be significantly lower than what someone gets who averages let's say 5.5 mi/kwh. The BMS update removes all consumption history and therefore, the GoM goes to the factory default.. For drivers who drive similar to the factory default, they won't see any major change with the BMS update. My GoM stayed about the same.. For drivers who usually get less than factory default, they will see a steep increase in GoM range after the update, In the end, after 1000 miles driving or less, the GoM should be back where it was..
 
Maple said:
Strange reason-BMS could not detect battery when battery full charged then caused short circuit. How this can cause short circuit? Over charge causes battery short circuit? If this is the reason the problem is not on battery it is BMS software problem.


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Over charging, over discharging and excessive temperature can all cause damage that causes an internal short. The damage is cumulative and can take place over time. Even if BMS algorithms are now correct to protect against additional damage, it cannot repair previous damage.


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R P said:
I must really charge mine up to 100% some time. Have never done it. Build date is Dec 27, 2018. Maybe it will blow up, and I get a new car... Don't want to lose my house though. I keep waiting for an opportunity to do it, just before a longer drive. Don't want to leave it sitting at 100% for too long.

No recall showing up yet for my VIN. I think I will get mine done right away, though. Don't want a bomb sitting in my garage, or in my driveway.

On the bright side, still no clicking after my motor change. Still only 5000 kms though since. When it reaches another 20K kms, then I will assume fixed for good.
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You will be fine, I charged mine up to 100% last night which is really only 4.16 cell voltage (not really 100%) and its still not on fire, lol. Now the clicking noise i'm not so sure about, I heard it briefly again after about 1000km on the new motor when the temperatures dipped again recently, its quite at the moment, so I am going to see how it goes.
 
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Recoil45 said:
Over charging, over discharging and excessive temperature can all cause damage that causes an internal short. The damage is cumulative and can take place over time. Even if BMS algorithms are now correct to protect against additional damage, it cannot repair previous damage.
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When you say damage and internal short, are you just talking about deterioration that leads to excessive range reduction, or to a fire. If it is the latter, should that not be prevented by the battery design and the BMS? I don't think a manufacturer should rely on a user to prevent such catastrophic failure. At the least there should be a stern warning in the manual,... and probably on the dashboard.
 
R P said:
When you say damage and internal short, are you just talking about deterioration that leads to excessive range reduction, or to a fire. If it is the latter, should that not be prevented by the battery design and the BMS? I don't think a manufacturer should rely on a user to prevent such catastrophic failure. At the least there should be a stern warning in the manual,... and probably on the dashboard.
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I had thought that the most likely thing that could lead to a fire was a damaged separator in the cell itself. This isn't something that can be visually inspected without totally destroying the cell. If this were the underlying problem, it would sort of be in LG's lap and not Hyundai, but at this point it is all guesswork - it could be something else entirely. A short circuit anywhere could in theory lead to a runaway thermal reaction, quickly leading to a fire.
 
I bought our’s in L.A. in early November of ‘19 and it’s on the list. Our Kona was built in Korea in August of ‘19. I had the original BMS maintenance update in July. I only charge to 70% unless I’m going on a long trip and that has not happened since COVID. Feel ok about it for now. The Kona has been perfect for our needs. Any loss of mileage will not work for me when I start driving to CA again. Hope it doesn’t come to legal wrangling.
 
Kona Bill said:
I bought our’s in L.A. in early November of ‘19 and it’s on the list. Our Kona was built in Korea in August of ‘19. I had the original BMS maintenance update in July. I only charge to 70% unless I’m going on a long trip and that has not happened since COVID. Feel ok about it for now. The Kona has been perfect for our needs. Any loss of mileage will not work for me when I start driving to CA again. Hope it doesn’t come to legal wrangling.
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Ya. If the solution to this is some sort of range limitation being imposed then the value proposition of the Kona changes completely and, for me, the utility of the vehicle would no longer work. A Kona with a limited range would be more comparable to several much less expensive EVs. And there's a reason I didn't opt for those. I hope it's all just rumours. I don't feel like owning a crippled car nor do I relish being party to a class action law suit.
 
Wildeyed said:
Ya. If the solution to this is some sort of range limitation being imposed then the value proposition of the Kona changes completely and, for me, the utility of the vehicle would no longer work. A Kona with a limited range would be more comparable to several much less expensive EVs. And there's a reason I didn't opt for those. I hope it's all just rumours. I don't feel like owning a crippled car nor do I relish being party to a class action law suit.
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I'm going to wait with bringing in my car for the recall until others have done so. If it includes a range reduction, I want them to buy back my car.. I won't accept ANY range reduction.. I frequently go to South Florida and I need at least 210 mile range at 70 mph with the AC on.. I can make it right now with 30 - 40 miles range remaining..
 
KiwiME said:
Noting this is entirely speculative, the combination of multiple connection points of the cooling pipes inside the housing, green coolant in earlier models with what we understand to be some level of conductivity, and mostly the very, very low percentage of the events is intriguing.

I would imagine the quality control of the cell components by LG Chem is highly consistent, whether good or bad, and if there was a separator defect of some sort there would be far more cases because the quality scatter is tight by design. The chances of only 16 being a problem, or 16 outliers in 294 x 77,000 cells seems slim. Plus they would probably know about it from production quality samples taken over time and recorded.

Pipe connections on the other hand, some plastic-welded and others quick-disconnect may potentially have a less consistent scatter graph of whether a single leak occurs. In that situation, 16 in 77,000 seems less out of place.

View attachment 9564
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KiwiME said:
Pipe connections on the other hand, some plastic-welded and others quick-disconnect may potentially have a less consistent scatter graph of whether a single leak occurs. In that situation, 16 in 77,000 seems less out of place.
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Possible. The original BMS TSB really had two checks. One was the cell voltage deviation, the other was to measure the isolation of the batteries to check for a ground fault. Leaking coolant could of course cause a ground fault, especially if it is the old green coolant. This is something they can check from the computer without removing the battery from the car.
 
KiwiMe may be onto something.
Everything from using dissimilar metals , having different factors of expansion, corrosion,
Conductive fluids, and even weird stuff like bacteria that eat copper.
This is all very complex and there could be compound problems.
Knowing the dates when the first heat pumps were installed might be a clue, if we had the dates
of the first fires.
 
Recoil45 said:
... The damage is cumulative and can take place over time...
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Just to note that one early event was a car on a Norway (or Denmark?) dealer's lot, and if I recall correctly with the Canadian event the owner had bought the car not long before.
ericy said:
...Leaking coolant could of course cause a ground fault, especially if it is the old green coolant. This is something they can check from the computer without removing the battery from the car.
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I would assume that the BMS update should be doing that for us every four hours.
R P said:
...I must really charge mine up to 100% some time. Have never done it. Build date is Dec 27, 2018...
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If you don't already have the tools, a bluetooth dongle and SoulEVSpy (android only) is a very easy way to check cell balance now and again. If the variation is no more than 0.02 V, you don't need to charge to 100%.
Barry T said:
...Knowing the dates when the first heat pumps were installed might be a clue, if we had the dates
of the first fires.
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Heat pumps have been present since day one as far as I know. The Netherlands and us in NZ got the very first cars after S.K. in mid-2018. But also, the HP only cools the coolant outside of the battery pack.
 
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