Questioning about Hybrid, especially PHEV

Having a bigger battery in a BEV has benefits besides longer range. Faster charging and less stress/cycling of the battery being a couple. The fastest charge rates typically are available at less than 75% SOC, sometimes as low as <40% (the Tesla M3 is an example)
Most new EVs will be able to support 250 to 350 kW charge rates which equates to ~20 miles per minute of charging. A larger battery and associated range also opens up the market to otherwise might not be candidates. Someone that drives 200 miles a week but has no capability to charge at home (or at work) could own a BEV and fast charge it once a week.
 
Landshark said:
Insightman has posted enough about the Mini to have his own forum.

Ahem, Domenick?
Click to expand...
Domenick did make me my own MINI Cooper SE forum. Check it out in the BMW section (well, probably not). I hate making you unhappy so I deleted my reference to the MINI from that post.
 
Last edited:
David Towle said:
Just drive it on gas more! I drive mine 100% on gas and it works great (well except for the Honda sensing!).
Click to expand...
I've been driving Honda Insights for 21 years and their Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) systems run on gas 100% of the time, using the battery to provide a boost only when the anemic IMA ICE needs some get-up-and-go assistance. Even though most of the Clarity PHEV's engineering magic is at work only in HV, I enjoy driving on EV power so much more. I often remind myself that a 12-cylinder engine doesn't run any smoother than my Clarity's motor when it's powered by only the battery.
 
Last edited:
The charging options also factor in to decision making. For a BEV you definitely need a level 2 charger. My home cannot support a Level 2 without expensive modifications. Some day I might do it, but for now the Clarity and Level 1 charger are perfect. Also no matter how many people claim they have done 16,843 mile road trips in Kalahari desert in their BEV, a road trip in a BEV is not as convenient as a PHEV. There are many more gas stations with more pumps and a 2 minute refueling is still much faster than a 30 minute charge session. I think the ideal PHEV (something with 20 kWh battery, about 60 mile range) is not a fad and will endure the test of time. The other consideration is battery supply. As long as manufacturers are battery constrained, a PHEV provides more environmental benefit than a BEV. You can make 4 PHEVs with the same battery cells that go in a long range BEV. 4 PHEVs could reduce overall gas consumption two times more than one BEV and 3 ICE cars.
 
Jimmy Vo said:
I love the concept of PHEV. You can drive long-range with battery, and have gas a backup. That is the main reason why I bought the Clarity. But after I have driven Clarity for 2 weeks, I have never used a single drop of gas/oil. So I ask myself if I drive battery for 95% of the time, why I do I have to carry the ICE Engine me every time I drive :). It's heavy and takes space. The fact that I might need ICE (gas engine) 5% of the time only, but it penalizes me to carry with me 95% when I don't use it, it gives me a second thought, it is worth it?
It makes sense when you do 50/50, but if you do over 90% of driving battery, you might as well getting all EV.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
I have seen the same argument regarding full EV Tesla. Instead of carrying around a 17kw battery you would be carrying around a 90kw battery. The extra weight is probably comparable to a modern aluminum block 1.5 liter engine. So lets say 17kw gets you were you need to go 95% of the time, you will be pulling around that heavy extra battery along with the extra added expense of it. It's really the same scenario just different components. Having said that you will not have to travel several hours and miles out of your way to link up to a Tesla super charger. Instead drive directly to your destination with on occasional two minute fill up. You will spend more time in the restroom then it takes to fill up the Clarity. The Clarity is truly an unknown gem, which is good for us. It makes it more affordable then if it was the most desired EV. It is a full EV , with a backup generator. Lol, everyone knows Honda makes good generators.....:).
 
Last edited:
Jimmy Vo said:
I love the concept of PHEV. You can drive long-range with battery, and have gas a backup. That is the main reason why I bought the Clarity. But after I have driven Clarity for 2 weeks, I have never used a single drop of gas/oil. So I ask myself if I drive battery for 95% of the time, why I do I have to carry the ICE Engine me every time I drive :). It's heavy and takes space. The fact that I might need ICE (gas engine) 5% of the time only, but it penalizes me to carry with me 95% when I don't use it, it gives me a second thought, it is worth it?
It makes sense when you do 50/50, but if you do over 90% of driving battery, you might as well getting all EV.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
This assumes personal circumstances- day to day, year to year are unchanging. Many BEV owners have a second, ICE car for longer trips.

If the charging infrastructure was fully built out and recharging was truly fast for most models, then I would agree with you. This is why manufacturers are making substantial investments in EVs- that and the expectation that governments will make rational environmental decisions and sufficient capacity will exist in the grid.

Now, if we learn from Covid, and among other things, substantially reduce our overall driving- your statement becomes even truer. Whatever the "debate" on reduced environmental impact of EVs- there is no rational debate that not driving at all is not better.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk
 
Lots of good thoughts here. Here's another reason for a PHEV. Our Clarity gets about 50 miles of EV on a full battery (more or less, depending on the season). Our neighbors recently bought an older Leaf with about the same EV range. Our 50 miles handles almost all of our driving, while the Leaf across the street could not do that. After a couple of times losing power on the road, they always leave themselves a 5-10 mile buffer. If Google tells us that the round trip is 35 miles and the EV estimate is 36, we do not hesitate. What I am saying is that having the small gas engine allows us to fully utilize the range that we have without worry. Yes, a Leaf with a 150 mile range would handle our trips as well, but then there is the weight of the bigger battery and the 160 mile trip to the in-laws becomes too exciting. I get a foolish satisfaction at recharging with 1 mile of EV left, I could not do that (and stay sane) with a BEV.
 
Last edited:
Timothy said:
I get a foolish satisfaction at recharging with 1 mile of EV left
Click to expand...
It's a fun game with no major penalty for failing when you have that ICE for back-up. What a pain it must be to call a tow truck to rescue your powerless BEV, knowing the expense and inconvenience could have been avoided with better planning. Of course, a lack of fuel planning could disable a gas-powered car, too, but then all you need is a buddy with a gas can.
 
Last edited:
insightman said:
What a pain it must be to call a tow truck to rescue your powerless BEV
Click to expand...
I am lucky that I live in California. I don't know about other states/regions, but in California, if you let your battery run out, it's totally your fault. Charge stations are everywhere in California, run out the battery it's like you let your gas run out. Noone to blame but you. Especially in Bay Area, silicon valley, most of the tech companies have charge stations for their employees, on top of that, Cities also provide charge stations, and lastly, private charge station companies are everywhere like chargepoint, evgo, blink, evconnected and ect...
I feel like California EV infrastructure is ready for the mass EV population.
 
That’s all fine and dandy until the wind blows or a wildfire starts. Then the power goes off. It’s peak season now, but the season has expanded to 11 months and 20-odd days.

More than a handful of folks were scrambling for backup generators last year.
 
Jimmy Vo said:
I am lucky that I live in California. I don't know about other states/regions, but in California, if you let your battery run out, it's totally your fault. Charge stations are everywhere in California, run out the battery it's like you let your gas run out. Noone to blame but you. Especially in Bay Area, silicon valley, most of the tech companies have charge stations for their employees, on top of that, Cities also provide charge stations, and lastly, private charge station companies are everywhere like chargepoint, evgo, blink, evconnected and ect...
I feel like California EV infrastructure is ready for the mass EV population.
Click to expand...

If your definition of California is big urban areas, then yes. I was trying to charge in Bakersfield area last December and I couldn't find a nearby charger. Besides it is not about being able to do something. Most people are not masochist, do not own Tesla stock, and would rather do a 2 minute refuel every 300 miles rather than a 30 minute charge every 200 miles.
 
Jimmy Vo said:
I agree with you, Pooky. After a few mins of thinking, I think I would come down to this main point, I would give this advice to buyers when they decide to buy PHEV:
If you buy a PHEV, you better justify that you don't have an alternative to do a long trip. It means that if you have do own a good spare ICE car, don't buy PHEV, you should get the BEV instead
Of course, this is my own humble opinion.

Good topic guys, it helps for your next decision of buying a PHEV or BEV
Click to expand...
B
 
Jimmy Vo said:
I agree with you, Pooky. After a few mins of thinking, I think I would come down to this main point, I would give this advice to buyers when they decide to buy PHEV:
If you buy a PHEV, you better justify that you don't have an alternative to do a long trip. It means that if you have do own a good spare ICE car, don't buy PHEV, you should get the BEV instead
Of course, this is my own humble opinion.

Good topic guys, it helps for your next decision of buying a PHEV or BEV
Click to expand...
But on most long trips you do a fair amount of local driving when you get there. This is when driving in EV makes the most difference. Its a wast to have a second car for long trips only.
 
For me in Canada, Clarity was at least 20% cheaper than the equivalent Leaf or Kona with 95% if not more of the EV experience. Since I don’t consider used cars, economically it was an easy choice.
 
insightman said:
I've been driving Honda Insights for 21 years and their Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) systems run on gas 100% of the time, using the battery to provide a boost only when the anemic IMA ICE needs some get-up-and-go assistance. Even though most of the Clarity PHEV's engineering magic is at work only in HV, I enjoy driving on EV power so much more. I often remind myself that a 12-cylinder engine doesn't run any smoother than my Clarity's motor when it's powered by only the battery.
Click to expand...
Yes agreed! That's why I use HV Charge to bring the battery up and let me drive in EV around town.
 
Agzand said:
If your definition of California is big urban areas, then yes. I was trying to charge in Bakersfield area last December and I couldn't find a nearby charger.
Click to expand...
Just an FYI: There are currently 36 Level 2 EVSEs and 8 CCS chargers in the greater Bakersfield area. There isn't a Tesla Supercharger station, though...
 
Jimmy Vo said:
but it penalizes me
Click to expand...
IMHO the idea of there being a "penalty" is somewhat fallacious as vehicles are engineered to be as efficient as possible for their given weight, etc. They are not designed as superleggera "rollers" that, then, have heavy engines or batteries installed. If an EV driver uses only 20 kWh of the 66 kWh capacity of the EV's traction battery it's not as if the remaining 46 kWh is being wasted: It's the same as having a 20 gallon fuel tank but only driving 10 miles. One can drive a whole lot of 10 mile trips on 20 gallons of fuel and that EV driver won't be plugging-in the EV all that frequently!
 
MrFixit said:
The 75 kWh battery in the Tesla Model 3 weighs 1060 lbs.
Click to expand...

That weight remains constant even as the amount of stored energy decreases. The car will always be laden with ~1000lbs of batteries whether they contain 5kWh’s or 75kWh’s of energy.

Likewise, when only 15kWh’s of energy is used for daily driving, the weight of 60kWh’s of batteries (750lbs?) is just going along for the ride, every day, and rarely being utilized.

So I’ll take 17kWh’s of capacity and the added weight of ICE and gas, because I don’t even want to stop in Bakersfield, let alone spend 30 minutes there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top