Seeing reports of a Kona Recall in form of Software Update

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Something interesting happened yesterday since the new software flash, when I charged the car up to 100% (96.5% BMS per torque pro, was 95% when the car was new), for the first time ever I got the message that I have no regenerative braking because the battery is full. I get how this might happen in cold temps but it was 24C ambient yesterday. Makes me wonder if the the extra 50 km of range showing up on GOM since the software change is actual reallocation of the hidden upper buffer to usable capacity and now when you charge to 100% you really are very close to that actual SOC.
 
I have received the message about regen braking often in winter at or near 100% SOC, but I haven't had the software update yet.
 
apu said:
Something interesting happened yesterday since the new software flash, when I charged the car up to 100% (96.5% BMS per torque pro, was 95% when the car was new), for the first time ever I got the message that I have no regenerative braking because the battery is full. I get how this might happen in cold temps but it was 24C ambient yesterday. Makes me wonder if the the extra 50 km of range showing up on GOM since the software change is actual reallocation of the hidden upper buffer to usable capacity and now when you charge to 100% you really are very close to that actual SOC.
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Wouldn't surprise me as this would not be the first time that has been done to an EV to increase the range
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/4117054/
 
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This software update is not yet available for my Niro. No doubt it will come eventually as the cars share virtually all EV components.

Glad we have Kona owners willing to be our guinea pigs. ;)
 
As promised, the reply from Hyundai Oz.:
-----------<quote>-------
Customer Care (Hyundai Customer Care)

Jun 3, 2020, 3:50:31 PM GMT+10

Hi xxxxx,
I hope this email finds you well.
I discussed your vehicle with our technical team.
They simulated your vehicle's update. Winter Mode is not required in Australia's tepid climate, which is why the system removed it.
The system upgrade was of they battery system so it charges more effectively.
No other system upgrades were done on the vehicle.
Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions.
------------<end quote>------

Talk about vague. I'm now trying to get more info from them.
Like some other folk have reported, I'm yet to get a charge rate above 43kW since the update, even on a 350kW charger.
Battery temp., when tested, was 18 deg C so I have to accept that's a factor. However, at 70%, it instantly dropped to 35kW.

Given that the update included BMS, MCU, VCULDC, IGPM, I'm struggling to believe that no other changes were made.
Btw, Winter mode was removed because I wasn't given a battery heater. That wasn't mentioned when I bought the car. It gets sub zero in Oz (at least in the places I visit during winter) so not impressed by that either.

Charging rate and range matter to me because I do long distances (1000km) in a day when travelling.
I'm beginning to think the M3 may have been a better choice.
 
Battery temperature needs to hit minimum of 25C and SOC needs be below ~53% to allow maximum 70+ kW charging.

For what it's worth, the original Korean TSB states that it applies to all 25,138 Konas built between September 29, 2017 and February 13, 2020.

Almost impossible to auto translate the Korean description but it sounds like:
"During parking, abnormal signals in the high voltage battery system will not be diagnosed." or "If there is an abnormal signal in the high voltage battery system while parking, it is not diagnosed".

Maybe related to preventing the Kona fires by warning owner of faults in their battery.

I suspect they didn't backport the changes to earlier 2017-2019 firmware versions so most likely the update also includes whatever other firmware changes were made for the 2020 models. Without this recall, you probably never would have gotten those other software upgrades released for older cars - stuff like the brake lights remaining on when stopped via left paddle, etc.
 
"Battery temperature needs to hit minimum of 25C and SOC needs be below ~53% to allow maximum 70+ kW charging."
Sure, but I'd expect better than 50kW at 18 deg.C (which, on retest this morning, lifted to 22 deg. C soon after starting the charge).

I'm thinking the translation refers to the car being parked and switched off. In which case, it could very well relate to the fires.

"Without this recall, you probably never would have gotten those other software upgrades released for older cars - stuff like the brake lights remaining on when stopped via left paddle, etc."
Sure, but why not tell the customer they are getting that upgrade?
When I dropped the car in, the guy said he'd get me printouts of what was being upgraded. Five minutes later, he comes back and says he's not permitted to do that.

Anyway, I wrote back to Hyundai Oz yesterday requesting answers to more specific questions and more detail. I'll see if they respond.
After that, there's a guy in Oz who like to challenge the auto makers - publicly. He may be willing to help find the answers.
 
syntaxfx said:
"Battery temperature needs to hit minimum of 25C and SOC needs be below ~53% to allow maximum 70+ kW charging."
Sure, but I'd expect better than 50kW at 18 deg.C (which, on retest this morning, lifted to 22 deg. C soon after starting the charge).

I'm thinking the translation refers to the car being parked and switched off. In which case, it could very well relate to the fires.

"Without this recall, you probably never would have gotten those other software upgrades released for older cars - stuff like the brake lights remaining on when stopped via left paddle, etc."
Sure, but why not tell the customer they are getting that upgrade?
When I dropped the car in, the guy said he'd get me printouts of what was being upgraded. Five minutes later, he comes back and says he's not permitted to do that.

Anyway, I wrote back to Hyundai Oz yesterday requesting answers to more specific questions and more detail. I'll see if they respond.
After that, there's a guy in Oz who like to challenge the auto makers - publicly. He may be willing to help find the answers.
Click to expand...
I agree, it would be nice if Hyundai explained the details of the upgrade (all of them) with more clarity, as there is more than one system change.
They only mention BMS enhancements to include additional monitoring of the HV battery while parked in my notice- nothing else.
 
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I've been waiting a month and a half for my car to come up on this recall, so I could get reprogrammed and see if it solves my problem with the 12v battery dying.

I keep checking the recall website but it says my car isn't recalled. So I called a dealer to see if they could do the reprogramming anyway.

Service advisor says "There's a recall out on your car - reprogramming the battery." So I made an appointment.

Then I checked the website again. Still not listed. Uh-oh. Better double check. So I called the 800 number and gave him my VIN."

"There's no recall on your vehicle."
"But I have this battery problem and other owners have gotten notices."
"Well, there is a service campaign, but it's not a recall."
"The web page says "There are no open Safety Recalls or Service Campaigns for this vehicle.' Why is it lying to me?"
"This is a recommended service. It's not really a recall or a campaign."

I love the car, but I can't stand this company. #HyundaiBetaTester
 
Hyundai Oz came back to me with some technical info on the update - as it applies to my car. If you're reading this, please assume that your situation could be different (more or less changes than mine):

-----------------
Customer Care (Hyundai Customer Care)

Jun 11, 2020, 9:02:05 AM GMT+10

Dear xxxxxx,

Thank you for your patience whilst I have obtained the answers to your questions.

Hyundai Technical have responded with the following information. Please note, winter mode does not apply to your vehicle.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.


Essentially the system’s sensitivity has been turned up and the frequency of testing has increased.


[Purpose]

This upgrade changes the high voltage battery sensitive and frequently checks for cell voltage deviation and insulation resistance,
so that problems can be identified and taken early in the event of a hazardous situation.



[Changed Logic]
1. Proceed the upgrade, the cell deviation and insulation resistance measurements become sensitive.
1) Cell deviation)
- Before : Detect problems when voltage deviation is higher than 1V.
- After : higher than 100mV (Level 1) / higher than 150mV (Level 2)
2) Insulation Resistance)
- Before : Less than 300kΩ
- After : Less than 900kΩ (Level 1) / Less than 700 kΩ (Level 2)

2. The inspection cycle will be changed as shown below.
- Before : Check the condition of the vehicle once 24 hours after starting off)
(At this time, check the condition of the 12V battery to support charging
from the high voltage battery if the SOC is insufficient)
- After : Monitor the vehicle condition for 2 hours in a row after starting off, then check the condition of the vehicle for 4 hours. (Total of 2.5 days)
* Check for 2 hours in a row for the first time only
* Check the condition of the vehicle once every 24 hours after 2.5 days.
* Check auxiliary battery SOC when monitoring the condition for supplementation.

* NOTE 1) As a result, the dark current can reach up to 300 mA even after starting off.
Based on the logic above, it will be lowered to 50 mA level after 2 hours.
* NOTE 2) In some cases, it is reported that the four controllers are discharged after updating them.
This may occur if the vehicle is parked in a short drive with a large number of auxiliary battery SOCs.
* NOTE 3) In some cases, you may be asked that the battery charge function button is disappeared in the cluster.
When vehicle monitoring starts, the 12V battery SOC is also checked at all the time.
then if insufficient, The auxiliary battery is charged. (The charge logic is always active.)
-----------------
So, my take is that:
1. the Aux. Battery Saver+ is now permanently on.
2. Extra monitoring of the traction battery suggests that they found an issue with balancing and this is the fix. I can't say if this relates to the earlier fires, but I can see how it might.
3. They still insist that nothing else changed on my car, but I know that's not true. eg. I now get brake lights when using the left paddle to stop. Didn't have that before.
4. It's possible that the woeful charge rates I'm getting now, are directly related to the weather. I'll have a chance to test that on Sunday with a run up to the mountains and back. That should take the SoC down to 30% and get the battery temp. above 22 deg. C.
 
Toolworker said:
I've been waiting a month and a half for my car to come up on this recall, so I could get reprogrammed and see if it solves my problem with the 12v battery dying.

I keep checking the recall website but it says my car isn't recalled. So I called a dealer to see if they could do the reprogramming anyway.

Service advisor says "There's a recall out on your car - reprogramming the battery." So I made an appointment.

Then I checked the website again. Still not listed. Uh-oh. Better double check. So I called the 800 number and gave him my VIN."

"There's no recall on your vehicle."
"But I have this battery problem and other owners have gotten notices."
"Well, there is a service campaign, but it's not a recall."
"The web page says "There are no open Safety Recalls or Service Campaigns for this vehicle.' Why is it lying to me?"
"This is a recommended service. It's not really a recall or a campaign."

I love the car, but I can't stand this company. #HyundaiBetaTester
Click to expand...
It's not just Hyundai. Recalls are a very specific thing with many implications and obligations attached, specifically legal liabilities. On your other issue, dif your dealer check
Toolworker said:
I've been waiting a month and a half for my car to come up on this recall, so I could get reprogrammed and see if it solves my problem with the 12v battery dying.

I keep checking the recall website but it says my car isn't recalled. So I called a dealer to see if they could do the reprogramming anyway.

Service advisor says "There's a recall out on your car - reprogramming the battery." So I made an appointment.

Then I checked the website again. Still not listed. Uh-oh. Better double check. So I called the 800 number and gave him my VIN."

"There's no recall on your vehicle."
"But I have this battery problem and other owners have gotten notices."
"Well, there is a service campaign, but it's not a recall."
"The web page says "There are no open Safety Recalls or Service Campaigns for this vehicle.' Why is it lying to me?"
"This is a recommended service. It's not really a recall or a campaign."

I love the car, but I can't stand this company. #HyundaiBetaTester
Click to expand...
It's not just Hyundai. Recalls are a very specific thing with obligations, legalities and consequences attached. Car makers are loathe to call them. On your other concern: has your dealer checked the Hybrid Control Unit? My 12 volt died and it was the cause.
 
Wow, the translation to english makes this pretty challenging to understand. But it's better to have this rather than nothing.
The (cell?) voltage deviation is so great before, and even after the update (for 3.6V nominal) that I would assume that this would trigger a fault indicator, not just a cell balancing event.

It sounds like the aux battery is checked when the car is "off" is only more frequently for the first 2.5 days after being parked, then reverts back to the current daily charging event.
 
Toolworker said:
I love the car, but I can't stand this company. #HyundaiBetaTester
Click to expand...

To be clear, what counts as a Recall in one country often turns into a TSB in another. The Chevy Bolt had an official recall in Korea for a suspension part while here in the USA it was just a TSB and not covered outside warranty ($1200 repair!). Not sure how Korea classifies this BMS update. If it's aimed at reducing risk of fires, then it seems odd not to be classified as global recall.

That Korean translation is indeed perplexing and clearly missing things already confirmed by other owners. I think the reason for that, as I mentioned before, is likely because this BMS update rolls-in whatever other standard production changes were made earlier for more recently produced cars. They were not new changes specific to this BMS revision. We would need a full changelog history of all prior production software updates.
 
I have a lot more than 50 km extra in the GOM

I got the update yesterday and charged the car after, now at 100% blue link is reporting 483km range.

Well see if this stays this high or if it readjusts after a few days
 
wizziwig said:
To be clear, what counts as a Recall in one country often turns into a TSB in another.
Click to expand...
The website said I didn't have a Recall (I never thought it was) or a Service Campaign. It's probably more than a TSB, since other US owners, including one with a production date later than mine, have gotten notices about this. But I haven't.
... this BMS update rolls-in whatever other standard production changes were made earlier for more recently produced cars. They were not new changes specific to this BMS revision. We would need a full changelog history of all prior production software updates.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm hoping it might happen to fix my 12v problem. What's the opposite of "collateral damage" - collateral repair?
 
Hi, I registered here to put my update on this issue

I am based in the UK and think I have the Highest milage Kona EV out there (64200 Miles currently) Registered sept 2018

Mine had the BMS update a couple of weeks ago when it was in for a failed 12V Battery and Steering Linkage Repair

Before the update

The Car WOULD NOT Charge on 90% of the Ecotricity DBT 50Kw DC Rapid Chargers (It cut out after 90 seconds tripping the charger),

On All Other 50Kw DC Rapids it would start at 44kw and ramp up to 49kw before throttling at 72%

On 150Kw and 350KW HPCs it would charge at 77kw up to 51% before throttling to 53kw and then again at 72% to 25kw

After the update

The car charges perfectly on all the Ecotricity DBT 50Kw Rapids now at 43kw up to 78% then throttles

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WACmviVeAikZC5Bh6

On Polar 50Kw DC Rapid Chargers the car starts at 44kw but after 5mins throttles to 38kw and will not go higher, stays there till 77% then throttles again to 25kw

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uazPm1Fk286MTj516


On IONITY 150kw and 350Kw HPCs the car will no no longer charge at more than 40kw no matter temp or level

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xpqZKgFMznTPanReA

On Shell 150Kw Chargers the car now charges at 53kw up to 51% then throttles

https://photos.app.goo.gl/qHDckhyhxckXDirQ8

On other 50Kw networks the results have been up to 45kw and no higher, despite these chargers always delivering up to 49kw in the past


Currently have a case open with Hyundai UK, they have tried claiming on the car having high mileage, but its been pointed out to them the 20Reg Loner (With Update) I had exhibited the same pattern, and it was working perfectly upto delivery to them for update.
 
I plugged in my EVSE a couple of days ago. First night it ran ABS+ for 20 minutes, as usual. Next night it ran for almost an hour - I never saw that before. Then last night it didn't run at all, which is probably the bug I've been seeing all along.

I'm going to charge up to 100% and note the SOC with Torque Pro before taking it in for reprogramming Monday.

stageshoot said:
Hi, I registered here to put my update on this issue ...
Click to expand...
Welcome aboard, and thanks for the info.
 
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