teslarati97
Well-Known Member
Your friend should just get the 40kWh $28,495 Nissan Leaf if MSRP is that important otherwise I recommend a KONA electric so he can be chuffed to bits about the EV range.
Will my SE still quality for tax credit
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AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
Well, on that basis I’d recommend the Chevy Bolt but the car is their second car for his wife and needs to be small and 2 door as they have some space constraints. Range is a non issue as their main car is a Long Range Model Y which is arriving on n the next 2 weeks or so…
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
True, the Bolt is 2.4 inches shorter and 1.4 inches narrower than the KONA. The real question is do you want fake Korean (Korean designed) or real a Korean EV???
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
There are no rebates on ICE cars, just to keep some perspective. Maybe these changes will create incentives to make more affordable EVs. Even without the rebate I would have bought the SE because of how well it's made and how it drives.
CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Given uncertainty as to what constitutes a "written binding contract", even ordering now may not be a solution.
As an example: my MA had me sign a printout of my order, but all I have paid is the $250 reservation fee. Do I want to gamble $7500 on some IRS auditor's interpretation of whether that qualifies or not? That seems the only option at present.
At the risk of drifting further off-topic for this SE-specific forum, here is Fisker's answer to the conundrum.
https://fiskerati.com/fisker/fisker-implements-plan-for-7500-ev-tax-credit/
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Greetings, y’all — have been a lurker in this forum for about a month now.
I am in the same position, as far as having signed a printout of the order and having paid the refundable $250 fee. I think the biggest problem that we’re facing at this point is that the plain language interpretation of the Transition rule cited by Aquavir above would only seem to apply when written, binding sales contracts are involved. Because we can back out of them (even getting our $250 back), I would argue that these orders are insufficient for purposes for claiming the tax credit, assuming the legislation passes. I, myself, am almost certain to back out of my order because (to me) the $7500 tax credit makes the difference between the SE being a worthwhile deal or not.
Importantly, however, I’m just a guy on the internet. While I have a law degree and earn a nice living translating federal bureaucrat-ese, my opinions are purely speculative. When your $7500 in tax credits are at stake, you would be would be foolish to rely on the opinion of internet randos (no matter how well-meaning/reasonable). Same applies to the article by Electrek or Bearded Tesla Guy’s video. Unless someone else intends to hold you harmless to the effects of their potentially incorrect interpretations, the only opinion that matters here is the IRS’ opinion.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
My friend placed his reservation this weekend.
I am the cautious type and thus wouldn’t be surprised if the reservation does not count as a sales contract. That said, it it arguable that no ordered car is eligible as paperwork, which typically involved finance, is not signed until the car arrives. So I would hope that an order placed with a dealer with paperwork would count. But who knows…
My recommendation was that he place the order with the dealer before the bill is signed into law. That may help with some determination down the line. It also means he has a chance of taking delivery of the car and having paperwork completed before the end of this year. This also may help.
If he waited until after the bill is signed maybe that causes a slight problem, but more importantly if he doesn’t take delivery and sign paperwork until after Jan 1st that may cause a bigger problem (not sure).
Worst case he gets his $250 back and has only waited time.
Before he knew of the existence of the SE they were already planning on buying an ICE Mini, and that is likely what he will do if this all goes south…
Regardless, in the absence of a clear definition at this moment, we figured the sooner he acts the better, with no real penalty bar time lost.
I am the cautious type and thus wouldn’t be surprised if the reservation does not count as a sales contract. That said, it it arguable that no ordered car is eligible as paperwork, which typically involved finance, is not signed until the car arrives. So I would hope that an order placed with a dealer with paperwork would count. But who knows…
My recommendation was that he place the order with the dealer before the bill is signed into law. That may help with some determination down the line. It also means he has a chance of taking delivery of the car and having paperwork completed before the end of this year. This also may help.
If he waited until after the bill is signed maybe that causes a slight problem, but more importantly if he doesn’t take delivery and sign paperwork until after Jan 1st that may cause a bigger problem (not sure).
Worst case he gets his $250 back and has only waited time.
Before he knew of the existence of the SE they were already planning on buying an ICE Mini, and that is likely what he will do if this all goes south…
Regardless, in the absence of a clear definition at this moment, we figured the sooner he acts the better, with no real penalty bar time lost.
Tell your friend there will be a 27.5% import tariff on the Chinese MINI Cooper SE vs. the 10% tax on British-made cars. The Signature might be gone, but the current Signature Plus is a bargain--even without including rear-passenger carpets.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
Well he made a reservation for the Signature 2.0 (essentially the Plus) this weekend and contacted Mini of Manhattan this morning.
They want an additional $750 deposit.
I told him that's fine as long as they create a binding, non-refundable sales contract as the refundable $250 reservation may not count.
And I also said this bill is likely to be signed into law before the end of this week so he better get a move on...
They want an additional $750 deposit.
I told him that's fine as long as they create a binding, non-refundable sales contract as the refundable $250 reservation may not count.
And I also said this bill is likely to be signed into law before the end of this week so he better get a move on...
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
This is the reason why the rear-wheel drive BMW iX3 was not brought to USA in 2020.
polyphonic
Well-Known Member
To be clear, the purchase order is a legally binding agreement to purchase the car regardless of the outcome of the bill?
Jim In Tucson
Well-Known Member
I’ve been attempting to follow this subject in various automotive new feeds. Seems to be a lot of different opinions out there. Some say there are no BEV’s that currently qualify for the proposed regs. And others who publish a list of the cars they believe do qualify. This may take a good long while to get sorted out, especially by the IRS.
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
No but it will help substantiate the claim until the formal process by the Secretary or IRS is setup. There will still be additional steps involved.
SCelectric15
New Member
The key phrase in all of this is "the date of enactment" and below is a definition, I believe the date for this bill is 1/1/2023.
Date of enactment This Law is enacted on the date specified in the Enactment Notice in respect of this Law.
So if you receive or sign a contract to purchase you should be ok.
Date of enactment This Law is enacted on the date specified in the Enactment Notice in respect of this Law.
So if you receive or sign a contract to purchase you should be ok.
chrunck
Well-Known Member
Exactly, this is why I think there's no way it will go into effect immediately once it's signed. You have to give people time to read and understand what is actually signed into law.
teslarati97
Well-Known Member
The battery and critical minerals will be for 2023, but the North America assembly is effective on the date of enactment which is no later than Dec 31, 2022. If you are a Tesla/GM/Toyota supporter, you want this effective IMMEDIATELY so the phase-out cap is removed. Toyota would have to make domestic PHEVs and maybe they can retrofit their Alabama factory.
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CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Continuing to beat a horse on life support, further web sleuthing indicates that, in other energy tax credit situations, the IRS has defined a "binding written agreement" as one that 1) is legally enforceable under local law, and 2) entails a penalty of more than 5% if broken.
Signature 2.0 w/ no options: $35075 x 0.05 = $1753.75
Iconic 2.0 w/ all the bells and whistles: $39450 x 0.05 = $1972.50
These amounts, of course, would have to be above and beyond the $250 reservation fee, which is refundable.
Following the lead of others, I have my MA looking into a purchase agreement, but I don't have a VIN yet, so may have to just walk away.
Signature 2.0 w/ no options: $35075 x 0.05 = $1753.75
Iconic 2.0 w/ all the bells and whistles: $39450 x 0.05 = $1972.50
These amounts, of course, would have to be above and beyond the $250 reservation fee, which is refundable.
Following the lead of others, I have my MA looking into a purchase agreement, but I don't have a VIN yet, so may have to just walk away.
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Aquavir
Active Member
Yeah, I should have added that I’m getting the car regardless of tax credit. I’m just trying to do as much as possible now to increase my chances of being able to cash in on April 15th. Personally I think they will ultimately delay a lot of this, but in order to get it through Congress they had to put in certain language; but the devil is in the details of how the administration implements the various provisions. Anyway, the point about “internet Randos” is a good one. Your mileage may vary…
In other forums (and on comments to news articles on the main page, people are calling for InsideEVs to put together a detailed analysis of the legislation…as if this website really wants to be on the hook for providing the advice that may/may not result in anyone getting $7500 worth of tax credits/rebates.