Will my SE still quality for tax credit

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Tommm said:
Query: What is the definition of a binding contract for this purpose?

When "you" get the VIN, is the dealer is bound/obligated to sell the car to "you?" Since you are then able to give that VIN to your lender to secure financing, etc. can you make the argument that you have a binding contract? Do you think the argument that you ordered an EV under the old system, the factory built it for you, and the dealer is bound to sell it to you is enough to get you either over the hurdle completely, or over it enough that if the argument is rejected, you wont get hit with penalties?
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I'm really hoping someone is willing to generously pay a tax attorney the $200-$400/hr rate and share the result with the rest of the community. This has been such a nightmare for those who honestly ordered their vehicle months ago and had little to no help from their dealership.
 
CuriousGeorge said:
Based on a letter to dealers, VW is at least contemplating a similar approach (but they'd better move fast!).

With MINI, though, I think we're dependent on the individual dealer, and as I mentioned before, mine couldn't/wouldn't do anything.

If someone is looking for a Chili Red Iconic 2.0, one might become available in a few months.
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this is what happen to me

So. I called BMW MINI USA. Talked to the customer service and explained what the new IRS rules are.. and they dont know what is going on. I asked them if i could get a written contract but they told me to talk to the dealer and dealer doenst want to deal with this. None is taking initiative on this matter. I got even tossed to their technology department ( department where they fix their blutooth connections LOL) and had to explain the IRS change again and then i got tossed to their customer service again. Wasted good 30 mins


I think people need to start o start calling mini and make complaints and concerns so that their management know what the ****s going on!! MINI is still advertising 7500 tax credit on their website. this is outrageous.

George where did you order yours? I ordered mine from Sewell Plano TX.
 
Gi Lee said:
this is what happen to me

So. I called BMW MINI USA. Talked to the customer service and explained what the new IRS rules are.. and they dont know what is going on. I asked them if i could get a written contract but they told me to talk to the dealer and dealer doenst want to deal with this. None is taking initiative on this matter. I got even tossed to their technology department ( department where they fix their blutooth connections LOL) and had to explain the IRS change again and then i got tossed to their customer service again. Wasted good 30 mins


I think people need to start o start calling mini and make complaints and concerns so that their management know what the ****s going on!! MINI is still advertising 7500 tax credit on their website. this is outrageous.

George where did you order yours? I ordered mine from Sewell Plano TX.
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I emailed to GM of my dealership and this is what i got.

" I completely understand your request and I empathize with your frustration over the complexity of this issue.


Sewell automotive companies represents many brands that are affected by the changes to federal EV credit. The manufacturers across the board have provided dealers with very little guidance on how best to assist our customers and what constitutes a ”legally binding contract.” Sewell’s own in-house counsel is actively working on a potential solution, but this is a fluid situation. We certainly want to help our customers to the best of our ability while remaining in compliance with the IRS.


I will forward your email to our attorney and get back to you as quickly as possible."


This is relieving for me.
 
Gi Lee said:
this is what happen to me

MINI is still advertising 7500 tax credit on their website. this is outrageous.
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Mini USA web site is notorious for getting updates after stuff has happened, including information on their new models weeks or a month after you can place orders for them. So this does not surprise me.
 
Gi Lee said:
this is what happen to me

So. I called BMW MINI USA. Talked to the customer service and explained what the new IRS rules are.. and they dont know what is going on. I asked them if i could get a written contract but they told me to talk to the dealer and dealer doenst want to deal with this. None is taking initiative on this matter. I got even tossed to their technology department ( department where they fix their blutooth connections LOL) and had to explain the IRS change again and then i got tossed to their customer service again. Wasted good 30 mins


I think people need to start o start calling mini and make complaints and concerns so that their management know what the ****s going on!! MINI is still advertising 7500 tax credit on their website. this is outrageous.
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If you hadn't entered into a "binding written agreement to purchase" before last Tuesday (8/16/2022), it's too late now.
 
teslarati97 said:
I wouldn't be able to figure out the 12V battery drain, 3.3kW charge speed (lower trim), and 32 miles full electric range @ 70MPH (~1.76mi/kWh) during a RAV4 Prime test drive.
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That's just FUD.

I've owned a Prime and they are the least problem-free EV/PHEV I've ever owned and it very possible to get upper-30s driving 70-80mph (after 85mph the ICE engine kicks in). I dislike Toyotas in general but I have to say the R4P is rock solid and will last 10-15 years without issue.

For reference I've owned 3 Teslas and due to freak ordering process 3 Mach-Es. Proud and happy owner of a 2023 MINI SE too :)
 
CuriousGeorge said:
PSA: the number of SEs either "at dealership" or "arriving soon" is now up to 18 (i.e., double what it was before the IRA was passed).
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Doesn't mean they are available though. My dealer posted all incoming SEs (including mine) on their website - on the week mine arrived - but they were all orders. I heard SE orders have quadrupled in 2022.
 
voxel said:
Doesn't mean they are available though. My dealer posted all incoming SEs (including mine) on their website - on the week mine arrived - but they were all orders. I heard SE orders have quadrupled in 2022.
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True...just observing that the number has doubled in the last week or so. Make of it what you will.
 
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fishbert said:
You did just agree with voxel that what you're pointing at doesn't indicate anything about buyers. So this is a bit of a non sequitur.
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Correction: what I'm pointing at may not (or may) indicate anything about buyers.

Of course, 60% of those responding to the poll here - obviously a biased sample - indicated that they would have passed on the SE if not for the tax credit. So, there is that.

Question: if your dealer advertises the car you ordered on their website, could that be taken evidence that you don't have a binding agreement?

Another question: if MINI SE sales measurably decline due to the IRA, will that influence future pricing, or even availability, in the US?
 
All the SEs will be purchased eventually. BMW is probably more worried about what they are going to do about a mid $20K Chevy Bolt with a $7500 tax credit (not to mention a bunch of Teslas that now will qualify)!


Sent from my iPhone using Inside EVs
 
teslarati97 said:
I'm really hoping someone is willing to generously pay a tax attorney the $200-$400/hr rate and share the result with the rest of the community. This has been such a nightmare for those who honestly ordered their vehicle months ago and had little to no help from their dealership.
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Based on the discussions even in this thread, don’t we imagine that the answer will unavoidably begin with “Well, it depends on which state you live in…”? Also, quite a few people have shared language from the various agreements that they’ve entered into. From what I’ve seen, there’s enough variance between them that, again, I can’t imagine that there’s a single answer that applies to all of us.

Given both of the above, I’m not the least bit surprised that the corporate overlords at MINI weren’t able to provide much in the way of useful guidance to their dealers, though I hope they at least advised them to seek advice from local counsel. I certainly don’t get the impression that my dealer bothered to lift a finger, and I suspect that quite a few people will abandon their orders. We’ll see what his inventory of SEs looks like in the next 6-12 months.
 
Tommm said:
Query: What is the definition of a binding contract for this purpose?

When "you" get the VIN, is the dealer is bound/obligated to sell the car to "you?" Since you are then able to give that VIN to your lender to secure financing, etc. can you make the argument that you have a binding contract? Do you think the argument that you ordered an EV under the old system, the factory built it for you, and the dealer is bound to sell it to you is enough to get you either over the hurdle completely, or over it enough that if the argument is rejected, you wont get hit with penalties?
Click to expand...

A lot of unknowns. Its really depends on the law in your state and whether or not the IRS agrees... talk to your MA, a lawyer, and then an IRS rep, haha.

Just like any normal dispute, courts and lawyers depend on precedence; since these are all new laws, we will have to wait and see! (unfortunately)
 
DavidD said:
A lot of unknowns. Its really depends on the law in your state and whether or not the IRS agrees... talk to your MA, a lawyer, and then an IRS rep, haha.

Just like any normal dispute, courts and lawyers depend on precedence; since these are all new laws, we will have to wait and see! (unfortunately)
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We'll see if a "binding contract" is strictly defined as a contract from which neither party can back out. Hopefully, because the number of people who ordered, but didn't take delivery of, an EV before August 16th isn't enormous, the feds will soften that hard-line definition and grandfather those customers into the original $7,500 federal EV tax credit. Right now, there is no one, not MINI USA, not Ask MINI, not MINI dealers, not MINI MAs, not tax attorneys, not CPAs, and not TurboTax programmers, who knows what the final disposition on this matter will be. It would be nice if the question is resolved by April 15th.
 
DavidD said:
A lot of unknowns. Its really depends on the law in your state and whether or not the IRS agrees... talk to your MA, a lawyer, and then an IRS rep, haha.

Just like any normal dispute, courts and lawyers depend on precedence; since these are all new laws, we will have to wait and see! (unfortunately)
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Lets go down your list
MA = Me experience with the first three were kids barely out of school who can barely tie their shoes, don't know how to shake a hand, or have the common sense togive a person their business card. Yep, they can be relied on for advice on a piece of legislation their only knowledge is from a few soundbites or social media posts. You know they haven't read a newspaper in months because, as my 19 year old daughter says, "it is all political and i dont want to read that."
Lawyer = Someone with a bit more training in reading the statute. Has no clue how the ambiguities in the statute will play out.
IRS Rep = Something that doesn't exist. One can request a Private Letter Ruling. But, that will apply only to that person, and will cost more than the credit.

Yep, it is a fustercluck!
 
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