Puppethead
Well-Known Member
I think I posted this in an EVSE thread, but here's a sample of what my SE drew during the 10 A Level 1 charging (Wh on the Y-axis, time of day on the X-axis). It peaked at 188 Wh.
Why not a COOPER S?
- Thread starter Pierre Racine
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GetOffYourGas
Well-Known Member
You wrote "Wow! 33 hours is even worse than the 2 days Tommy claimed!"
How is 33 hours worse than 2 days (48 hours)? In the context of this discussion, wouldn't less time be better? This is what I'm confused about.
Hence my admission that I was the one who was confused--like when people chose McDonalds' Quarter Pounder over Burger King's 1/3 pound burger because they believed the Quarter Pounder was bigger.
GetOffYourGas
Well-Known Member
Gotcha
Hey Scott,
Sorry, a bit off topic.
I've seen you mentioning Tesla Model 3 several times in this forum that you also have in your family. Can you comment on how it compares to the Mini Cooper SE? I am in the market for a sub-40K EV and both are still on my list. This will be our 2nd car (we also have a compact hybrid SUV) as my daily commuter and occasional kids' transporter, replacing a manual VW GTI (mk7). As it is no longer a manual, my wife may drive it when I take the SUV out.
Thanks a lot!!!
Sorry, a bit off topic.
I've seen you mentioning Tesla Model 3 several times in this forum that you also have in your family. Can you comment on how it compares to the Mini Cooper SE? I am in the market for a sub-40K EV and both are still on my list. This will be our 2nd car (we also have a compact hybrid SUV) as my daily commuter and occasional kids' transporter, replacing a manual VW GTI (mk7). As it is no longer a manual, my wife may drive it when I take the SUV out.
Thanks a lot!!!
CuriousGeorge
Well-Known Member
Cheapest Model 3 (in the US) is $39,990. So, yes, technically under $40k, but if you can take advantage of the $7.5 federal tax credit, the SE can be had for <$30k (<$20k in some states).
IOW, cost-wise I don't think that they are even in the same ballpark.
F14Scott
Well-Known Member
My wife and I are hooked on electric cars. She got her Tesla first, with our primary goal being her eliminating stops at the gas station, as we live downtown Houston and she had a few uncomfortable fill ups, approached by the, um, urban campers that blight the area. After experiencing all the aforementioned positives that go with EVs, I decided to try the MINI, since I enjoy small, quick cars. After owning these two, despite being a lifelong gearhead, wrench spinner, and motorcyclist, I’m pretty sure I’ll never own an ICE car again.
Our Tesla is an AWD with the $2,000 performance boost. It is insanely fast, like 0-60 in the high threes. The self-driving thing is very cool, and is the one thing I wish Jessie had, as I have a 64 mile RT commute. It’s a big car, wide and heavy. But, it seats four comfortably, and its trunk is huge (plus the frunk). All in, with the self driving and boost, it was around $60K and not eligible for the $7500 tax credit. Being a Tesla, with a robust charging network, it is fine for road trips, if one is willing to multiply time of travel by about 1.25 (but likes to eat and hit the head while waiting for the charging), and as long as you are not driving too far away from major cities and highways.
I often call Jessie “Two thirds the car, at half the price.” Fully loaded, but after the tax credit, I paid around $31,000. Since I never use it for more passengers than two, I have the aft seats permanently folded flat. This gives me a large cargo area where I can haul my golf clubs and plenty more. Jessie is small and quick, 0-60 in around six, slow next to the Tesla’s ridiculous grunt, but fast enough to be fun. I prefer zipping around in the SE to carving around in the Tesla, except perhaps on the highway for long distances, where the power, self-driving, and range are nice. But, I like the SE’s cockpit more. The seats are better, and I like the real leather. And, although the Tesla’s driver interface is slightly easier to navigate, overall, than the MINI’s, I prefer the more traditional gauges and switches to the single screen Tesla. Also, parking in the MINI in a tight, downtown environment is awesome.
Overall, having a MINI SE as a second, city car is fantastic. It’s cheap, comfortable (for two), small, fun, and rare. Everybody wants to talk about it. Valet guys often put in on the front row, next to the Lambo. I wouldn’t take it on a road trip, both because it goes only two hours between 30-minute fill ups and because the CCS charging network is smaller and less reliable, IMO, but I have never found its 125-140 mile real world range to be inadequate for daily, city use.
Either way, you’re going to have a great time. Good luck!
Thanks for the reply. You are right currently the model 3 SR+ is more expensive to buy (and slightly more expensive to own per my calculations/assumptions) but I am in no hurry to buy a car. I hope the bill for the 7.5K+ incentive (for all EV brands, including Tesla and GM) will pass. Once passed, the model 3 SR+ can be cheaper to own, mostly due to its low depreciation.
GetOffYourGas
Well-Known Member
Those incentives are a double edged sword. If a new Model 3 is suddenly $7500 cheaper, then used prices will adjust downwards as well.
GvilleGuy
Well-Known Member
Nice comparison, @F14Scott ! I enjoyed that. In five months I think I've only had one car (An ICE Ford Mustang) beat me at a stop light derby. But it was close. The Mini is way more than adequate for most acceleration needs, but Tesla is another level of WOW THAT IS FAST! I rode in my friend's Model Y last month, and it is crazy quick off the line.
Tommm
Well-Known Member
I told my dealer I may charge them for tax research. They told me to contact a tax professional when I asked about the rebate. Here is the lowdown on the federal tax credits from a tax pro.
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-new-qualified-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit
Sorry, no federal money on the Tesla.
Here is Mini
Model Year Vehicle Description Credit Amount
2018, 2019 MINI Cooper S E Countryman ALL4 $4,001
2020, 2021, 2022 MINI Cooper S E Countryman ALL4 $5,002
2020 MINI Cooper S E Hardtop 2 Door $7,500
2021, 2022 MINI Cooper S E Hardtop $7,500
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/irc-30d-new-qualified-plug-in-electric-drive-motor-vehicle-credit
Sorry, no federal money on the Tesla.
Here is Mini
Model Year Vehicle Description Credit Amount
2018, 2019 MINI Cooper S E Countryman ALL4 $4,001
2020, 2021, 2022 MINI Cooper S E Countryman ALL4 $5,002
2020 MINI Cooper S E Hardtop 2 Door $7,500
2021, 2022 MINI Cooper S E Hardtop $7,500
Teddydogno1
Active Member
There has been some chatter/hope that the Feds will re-authorize the credit for GM and Tesla. I have no idea if that is reasonable or not.
There also has been a proposal to put an income limit on the credit, which will royally tick me off if it happens and pushes me out. The Feds have a habit of taking away tax credits from those who pay the most in taxes. Like the recent change that INCREASED the child tax credit, but ADDED a phase out for higher income, leading to effectively cutting mine in half instead of increasing it by 50%.
Rob
There also has been a proposal to put an income limit on the credit, which will royally tick me off if it happens and pushes me out. The Feds have a habit of taking away tax credits from those who pay the most in taxes. Like the recent change that INCREASED the child tax credit, but ADDED a phase out for higher income, leading to effectively cutting mine in half instead of increasing it by 50%.
Rob
Tommm
Well-Known Member
The bill the senate passed and the terrible writing by the reporters is what got me off the fence. Is it 100,000 "Income" for a single, and 200,000 for a joint, or just 100,000?
Regarding GM and Tesla - Why are Caddy and Chevy under the GM umbrella, Ford and Lincoln under the Ford umbrella, but Mini not under the BMW umbrella, Bentley, Porsche, Lamborghini, Audi, (and I'm probably missing one or two) under the VW umbrella?
F14Scott
Well-Known Member
I thought of two more reasons:
1. I hate that stupid engine kill/restart thing at stoplights that is now on most new cars. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. When in such cars,, I often find myself getting off the brake fast enough that my foot depresses the accelerator mid-start, causing the engine to bog for a bit and be slow and rough off the line. I also don't like the AC compressor stopping and the AC just trying to blow air past a warming condenser (in Houston) until the engine has to start again, anyway. I also believe the starters, designed for one start per trip, will suffer excessive wear when they have to start the car 20 times per trip. Hate it.
2. I don't ever have to worry about my catalytic converter getting sawed off and stolen.
1. I hate that stupid engine kill/restart thing at stoplights that is now on most new cars. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. When in such cars,, I often find myself getting off the brake fast enough that my foot depresses the accelerator mid-start, causing the engine to bog for a bit and be slow and rough off the line. I also don't like the AC compressor stopping and the AC just trying to blow air past a warming condenser (in Houston) until the engine has to start again, anyway. I also believe the starters, designed for one start per trip, will suffer excessive wear when they have to start the car 20 times per trip. Hate it.
2. I don't ever have to worry about my catalytic converter getting sawed off and stolen.
fasttr
Member
Just like the battery percentage gauge. Broken up into 1/8 fuel tank measurements, instead of 10% digital increments.
Puppethead
Well-Known Member
Here's a graphic example about how dumb the gauge is. It showed I had 50% battery left. Oh wait, no. I actually only had 43% battery.
chrunck
Well-Known Member
The starters are designed for much more than one start per trip and use less fuel than an old school starter. You can also disable the auto start/stop, which we do in the summer.
F14Scott
Well-Known Member
Can you set it to default disabled, or do you have to manually disable it every time you get in the car?
Good to know, on the starter longevity, but it's still a point of failure that EVs don't have.