Why I sold my Clarity after a year.

[Bryan Keil]

I have had my Clarity for about 6 months now and just love the thing. If you bought one thinking it was a regular car, you would be mistaken. I get over 50 mpg when in HV mode regularly on longer trips. That is Prius Mileage without the crappy little Prius. These cars are to be driven modestly, and if you don't drive like that, then get a different car. I drive mine almost exclusively in cruise control (I love ACC) not ever exceeding the speed limit and probably going even slower. I learned a while ago to leave a few minutes, yes, a FEW minutes earlier for where I am going. Less stress, better economy and way easier on the vehicle and me. A little harder on all the other nut jobs on the highway though. This is the realm that these super high mileage vehicles were meant to be operated in. They are not racecars will not operate as such. They operate exactly how they were designed too. The engine could be a little quieter though, but I only hear it very rarely even when it is operating. I have adjusted to the vehicle and have not asked the vehicle to adjust to me. This car is not for everybody.

 

[KentuckyKen]

I have had my Clarity for about 6 months now and just love the thing. If you bought one thinking it was a regular car, you would be mistaken. I get over 50 mpg when in HV mode regularly on longer trips. That is Prius Mileage without the crappy little Prius. These cars are to be driven modestly, and if you don't drive like that, then get a different car. I drive mine almost exclusively in cruise control (I love ACC) not ever exceeding the speed limit and probably going even slower. I learned a while ago to leave a few minutes, yes, a FEW minutes earlier for where I am going. Less stress, better economy and way easier on the vehicle and me. A little harder on all the other nut jobs on the highway though. This is the realm that these super high mileage vehicles were meant to be operated in. They are not racecars will not operate as such. They operate exactly how they were designed too. The engine could be a little quieter though, but I only hear it very rarely even when it is operating. I have adjusted to the vehicle and have not asked the vehicle to adjust to me. This car is not for everybody.

Well said sir, well said. Spot on!

 

[Fast Eddie B]

These cars are to be driven modestly, and if you don't drive like that, then get a different car. I drive mine almost exclusively in cruise control (I love ACC) not ever exceeding the speed limit and probably going even slower. I learned a while ago to leave a few minutes, yes, a FEW minutes earlier for where I am going. Less stress, better economy and way easier on the vehicle and me. A little harder on all the other nut jobs on the highway though. This is the realm that these super high mileage vehicles were meant to be operated in.

You’ve just perfectly described “geriatric mode”.

Don’t knock it I find you haven’t tried it!

We’ve got a trip to S FL coming up soon, about 900 miles each way. Though out hair isn’t blue (yet) I think “geriatric mode” might just be par for the course down there.

But seriously, charging options will be few and far between on our trip, and I’m curious as to what kind of gas mileage we’ll end up getting. I know I’m still ecstatic over 5 or 6 gallon fillups - roughly half of what we’re used to.

 

[Groves Cooke]

I have had my Clarity for about 6 months now and just love the thing. If you bought one thinking it was a regular car, you would be mistaken. I get over 50 mpg when in HV mode regularly on longer trips. That is Prius Mileage without the crappy little Prius. These cars are to be driven modestly, and if you don't drive like that, then get a different car. I drive mine almost exclusively in cruise control (I love ACC) not ever exceeding the speed limit and probably going even slower. I learned a while ago to leave a few minutes, yes, a FEW minutes earlier for where I am going. Less stress, better economy and way easier on the vehicle and me. A little harder on all the other nut jobs on the highway though. This is the realm that these super high mileage vehicles were meant to be operated in. They are not racecars will not operate as such. They operate exactly how they were designed too. The engine could be a little quieter though, but I only hear it very rarely even when it is operating. I have adjusted to the vehicle and have not asked the vehicle to adjust to me. This car is not for everybody.

I think that pretty much describes my driving habits also. Engine very rarely comes on unless I am on a longer trip and select HV. It is noticeably louder in very cold weather but I can put up with that. I use about a tank of gas every 1100 miles.

 

[ClarityBill]

I think I drive in geriatric mode, except that I don't mind keeping up with traffic on the Interstate (73 mph). I rarely exceed 50% on the power meter.

I have attached a couple graphs of OBDII data. They show ICE RPM's vs road speed (mph). The Clarity never goes over 2500 rpm at low road speeds (the 3K outlier is a glitch on recording during interstate travel). RPM's of gear mode are pretty clear as the low end for higher speed operation.

Just more data.

 

[Mark W]

I think there are multiple different interpretations of "loss of power" depending on who's talking, and who's listening. Makes me kinda feel a little bit sorry for Honda, and the dealers, who are forced to field complaints from some customers. It has to be tough for all parties.

"Loss of power" = all electronics shut down and car coasted to stop?
"Loss of power" = car still seems to be running, electronics still on, but car coasted to a stop?
"Loss of power" = the engine got really loud but the car wasn't going any faster?
"Loss of power" = I put my right foot all the way to the floor and the car could only go 30 mph?
"Loss of power" = I put my right foot 3/4 of the way to the floor and the car held a steady speed going up hill but didn't accelerate?
etc
...

I'm feeling there is a disconnect (maybe SEVERAL disconnects) between what people are experiencing, what they're saying, and how others are interpreting what is being said. And I'm not sure where the disconnect is. I know I'm a bit confused, as my car works exactly as I expect it to. But if I have a passenger with me, the car doesn't always work exactly as my passenger expects it to. Because I pretty well understand the car, and my passenger never does. EV mode is easy. HV mode? Ha...it is ALWAYS a fun little conversation as I explain what the car is doing. This is, absolutely, an odd car. It does not work "normal" when compared to other cars. The gas pedal is not in any way attached to the engine itself...in fact the engine essentially ignores the gas pedal at almost every time -- I KNOW some people don't comprehend that fully and have a hard time adjusting. But that doesn't always mean it's not working as designed, nor unsafe. It just makes funny noises at funny times, and some people maybe have a hard time accepting this? But in my experience, no matter what sounds the engine might be making at any moment, the farther I put my foot down on the right pedal, the faster the car goes, without a single exception. In this way, the car is normal. But others apparently disagree? I dunno...

I completely agree with this. Having the engine noise be almost completely disconnected with accelerator pressure is a completely foreign thing, and defies our brains idea of what is "normal". When you are cruising along, and all of a sudden the engine revs loudly, I think most peoples first natural reaction is to let up on the accelerator to stop the revving, resulting in some "loss of power". I know I have done that. The first reaction is to want to stop the revving. I have read here on this forum that people turn off HV mode to stop the noise.

So, what does this mean for Honda? They could certainly take the position of simply stating that the car is operating as designed. I really think that the appropriate response should be that they should look into the software and see if the high revving can be avoided. What is the sudden emergency that causes it? Couldn't there be an interim RPM that can be used so that the change is not so jarring? Working as designed in this case is causing some logical normal car owners to think their car is malfunctioning, or at least functioning in a way that is not acceptable to them.

 

[ClarityBill]

I was looking at some older OBDII data, and the RPM - Speed curve is ugly. I was driving a back road, and going through a small town, at less than 20 MPH, I had 3500 rpm... That would have been a loud day in the car - some people might call it angry bees.

The ambient temperature is low, and the SOC is higher than I would run today, at those temperatures.

 

[SkipperT]

You’ve just perfectly described “geriatric mode”.

Don’t knock it I find you haven’t tried it!

We’ve got a trip to S FL coming up soon, about 900 miles each way. Though out hair isn’t blue (yet) I think “geriatric mode” might just be par for the course down there.

But seriously, charging options will be few and far between on our trip, and I’m curious as to what kind of gas mileage we’ll end up getting. I know I’m still ecstatic over 5 or 6 gallon fillups - roughly half of what we’re used to.

Geriatric mode. I like it. So when the dash lights blue from each edge.....

So when Sport mode is on, should we call it “Angry” mode” or maybe “sundowner” mode?

(My MIL has dementia/Alzheimer’s so no offense meant or should be taken)

-Skip


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[Robert_Alabama]

I drive in Eco all the time, but like a donkey on the edge. I push it routinely just up against the point of starting the ICE.

 

[Viking79]

Sport or Econ have same acceleration potential, if you push it to the floor the car will accelerate the same (I have verified this with OBD II and Torque Pro app on my phone, same 0-60 times).

I have never had unexpected power loss like people experienced here in 32,000 miles (I have experienced it in my i3, so I know the feeling where the car suddenly starts dropping power). My first hunch could be a cold battery or depleted battery. The first time I drove the car I didn't like how it drove and performance wasn't great. It was very cold with a low battery. I didn't like how it drove, but it hasn't driven like that since.

However, the engine has enough performance that it should have no issues moving the car at a reasonably safe speed even with a depleted battery. My hunch is the cars programming might not be ideal. Like the car should automatically cut heat if it can't produce enough power to move the car, that is what my i3 does, the heater goes cold if you push the car so hard the engine is maxed out or if the battery is cold the heater will cut before drivetrain power (although both will be impacted).

If you have this happen, I would file a complaint with NHTSA, otherwise nothing will progress with it. We found that with the HV range calculation as well.

 

[Lex]

Just joined the forum as a 2 month owner. I have not had any “power loss” issues climbing 1000s of feet of elevation, so hoping true loss of power is a problem for a small number of cars.

But I do see frequent complaints about bees, revving, etc which is likely related to how the car is being driven. I am not hesitant to use HV Charge Mode (probably the least used mode on the Clarity) on the downhills when the car can deploy almost all of the engine output to charge the battery, then I’m ready to power up the next mountain silently in EV mode. I think this is the way this 4000 lb. car was intended to be driven to smooth out extremes in power requirements in mountainous terrain, especially when other factors (cold, heater use, etc are also present). Even doing this, I get 40+ mpg at 60+ mph.

In short, and somewhat ironically for a PHEV, this car performs better and is more efficient for people who aren’t afraid to use gas when needed on long trips (and even before it is needed). The biggest barrier is mental: EV People who hate the ICE and deploy ICE as little as possible as a backup plan on long trips will likely not enjoy the car when higher power is needed. I realize there are people who don’t want to fiddle with the modes this much, but it does become second nature (like steering!).

 

[MPower]

I realize there are people who don’t want to fiddle with the modes this much, but it does become second nature (like steering!

Probably many of these folks would not think twice about the effort of driving with a stick shift. Give me modes any day.

 

[MPower]

But seriously, charging options will be few and far between on our trip, and I’m curious as to what kind of gas mileage we’ll end up getting. I know I’m still ecstatic over 5 or 6 gallon fillups - roughly half of what we’re used to

If my Christmas trip was any thing to go by, 1000 miles of it (2 days) was without an additional charge and I got about 42 mph driving like a little old lady which I am. It will be easier for you to use less heat than i did and if you stay under 70 mph, you will have a lovely trip. Have a good time.

 

[KClark]

But seriously, charging options will be few and far between on our trip, and I’m curious as to what kind of gas mileage we’ll end up getting. I know I’m still ecstatic over 5 or 6 gallon fillups - roughly half of what we’re used to.

I wrote about this in another thread, but I recently made a round trip of about 750 miles from LA to southern UT and back on I-15 that has a lot of altitude variation including 3 large grades of 3000+ feet. There were three adults and luggage, driving about 75mph, using ACC most of the way and setting HV mode once we got on the freeway, we averaged about 39mpg.

 

[bill_m]

Sport or Econ have same acceleration potential, if you push it to the floor the car will accelerate the same (I have verified this with OBD II and Torque Pro app on my phone, same 0-60 times).
...

Hi, I have long been curious about the "accelerator pedal clicks" appearing on the diagram on the famous driving modes page (p. 12) of the Owner's manual. With your experience, maybe you could help me out? Do you feel the pedal click in all three modes when you push the pedal to the floor? Or does the statement: "... past the point at which you feel a click, the engine will start in the ECON mode with the HV indicator off" intend to mean that only when you are in ECON mode will you feel the click?

 

[KentuckyKen]

Hi, I have long been curious about the "accelerator pedal clicks" appearing on the diagram on the famous driving modes page (p. 12) of the Owner's manual. With your experience, maybe you could help me out? Do you feel the pedal click in all three modes when you push the pedal to the floor? Or does the statement: "... past the point at which you feel a click, the engine will start in the ECON mode with the HV indicator off" intend to mean that only when you are in ECON mode will you feel the click?

The pedal click is mechanical and occurs at a fixed point in the pedal travel range and thus is independent of what Mode you are in. The different Modes just remap the pedal output. So in ECON, the engine will not come on until you hit the click but in SPORT will came on before the click.
Also the remapping results in less pedal force or travel in SPORT than in ECON to achieve the same acceleration. It doesn’t give you any more power (the engine just comes on line with less pedal travel) , but since you get the power “quicker” by way of less pedal force or movement, it seems “sportier”.

 

[bill_m]

The pedal click is mechanical and occurs at a fixed point in the pedal travel range and thus is independent of what Mode you are in. The different Modes just remap the pedal output. So in ECON, the engine will not come on until you hit the click but in SPORT will came on before the click.
Also the remapping results in less pedal force or travel in SPORT than in ECON to achieve the same acceleration. It doesn’t give you any more power (the engine just comes on line with less pedal travel) , but since you get the power “quicker” by way of less pedal force or movement, it seems “sportier”.

The pedal click is mechanical and occurs at a fixed point in the pedal travel range and thus is independent of what Mode you are in. The different Modes just remap the pedal output. So in ECON, the engine will not come on until you hit the click but in SPORT will came on before the click.
Also the remapping results in less pedal force or travel in SPORT than in ECON to achieve the same acceleration. It doesn’t give you any more power (the engine just comes on line with less pedal travel) , but since you get the power “quicker” by way of less pedal force or movement, it seems “sportier”.

Right, I get the idea of the remapping of the pedal in the three modes. I am more concerned about the change of modes specified in the last sentence of the first paragraph. It seems that when one is in NORMAL mode or SPORT mode the engine may be invoked with no change of mode, but after the pedal click will "the engine start in the ECON mode with the HV indicator off".? So it seems to be saying that it puts one then into ECON mode from NORMAL mode or from SPORT mode? Seems a bit strange...

 

[PHEV Newbie]

I think I drive in geriatric mode, except that I don't mind keeping up with traffic on the Interstate (73 mph).

I prefer the term "safe and rational mode" and yes, I drive like that (typically get high forties mpg in HV; best loop, I got 52 mpg going 50-55 mph!).

 

[Dante]

A car that requires a PhD to drive with modes, displays, behaviors, and terminology is not in step with today's "smart" everything IMHO. You're supposed to focus on getting where you need safe and sound, and with some pleasure if possible, not to have to use your brain from the moment you get in till you arrive to your destination, about what mode, what button, what the car is thinking and what you should do to change that in any particular driving situation.

Think of a young student, a busy mother, an elderly couple and so on that are sold on the fact this car is great size, "a Honda" with its reputation for durability and credibility, and great in gas with the caveat of "plugging it in when parked at home" - they'd be up for a rude awakening, and some scares let's be honest. Telling them "do your research" and "testdrive" is not fair, because we're still learning here even after months of driving them, and reading comments form engineers and gurus in forums.

This car serves me well - very well for what I need actually... however I had plans at some point to let mi wife take over (her work is local and 10miles away so she'd never need gas practically) and I'm not sure anymore this car is the hands-off type we've come to get accustomed to with gas ones.

 

[KenG]

I guess I’m blessed wirh my Clarity. On two 250 mile trips with rolling hills and a couple of steep hill climbs, I started out in HV with 99% SOC and had a great experience. No angry bees, no loss of power, and the SOC pretty much held steady. On the rolling hills the ICE was barely even noticeable and on the steep climbs it only reved up to a pleasant lower mid range hum kind of like my old gas mobile downshifting out of overdrive. Not objectionable at all.
So EV in town and HV on the highway/ Interstate (with plenty of charge) works just fine for me.

My Clarity has also worked seamlessly for over a year and 9k miles....


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