That 90 clause was in the dealers favour.
What part of law can be referred to for this suffer damage part and what argument is available to make?
Who in Canada is waiting for the Clarity
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What part of law can be referred to for this suffer damage part and what argument is available to make?
Actually the 90 clause is for the buyers favour and is put there by OMVIC not the dealers.
Canadian contract law is not a law you can look up. It evolved from court decisions as common law does. Many great texts to help you learn.
I would suggest the library or google to learn the fundamentals of contract law in Canada and damages as they relate to breach of contract.
An interesting Ontario case to prove that dealerships can’t hide absolutely behind the words of a vehicle sales contract would be 1976 canlii 615. Canlii.org is a great website for looking up Canadian case law. In that case the dealership sold a defective truck and put a clause in the contact the vehicle was being sold as-is with no warranty whatsoever. The dealer knew the trunk was defective, the buyer thought the truck worked and claimed damages for the defective truck.
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iluvscuba
Well-Known Member
If they don't deliver the car and we lost the $14k or $13k (since we can't order anything now), is that actual damage? Ford will be removing the rebate soon base on the Star article (and of course he already remove the Ontario Green Fund on Tuesday even before he took office)
Exactly, if they delivered the vehicle as agreed, you would get rebate. Now by pushing your order to a 2019, you are out the rebate (assuming it gets cancelled). That is your damage. So $13k or $14k depending when you placed order.
When they took your order, if they subsequently found out there was even a slight chance it wouldn’t be filled, they should have immediately notified you so you could have shopped elsewhere to get a vehicle in time for the rebate. But by not telling you until the very end, it leaves you unable to buy another 2018 EV even if you wanted.
Because of that 90 day OMVIC clause you can’t force them to give you a 2018 model, but if no 2018’s are left, even if you legally could have forced them, they still couldn’t provide you a 2018, so that point is moot.
All you can do is make yourself whole financially for them taking your order and then failing to provide the agreed upon vehicle (2018 Clarity).
In Ontario small claims will also award you costs for the lawsuit, but they are called at 15% of the damages. So be warned that if you hire a lawyer/paralegal to help, the cost award will not fully reimburse your legal costs.
Keep in mind there are many many things to consider in a claim and this broad overview is no where complete enough to be used as a basis for your case in court.
Interesting read
https://www.wheels.ca/news/what-can-i-do-if-the-dealer-doesnt-deliver/
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In this case it is for the dealer.
You said that was the clause that was key and have NEVER given a single good legal argument here despite being asked more than once. All you are doing is being vague and aloof so it sounds like you are just puffing your chest and blowing hot air.
Finally you provided some wheels article....while a little different I like the part of that had them covering the manufacturer rebate due to ordering late.....I really don't know what type of deal you made with the dealer or if you indeed ended up being treated fairly but I hope you did.
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lorem101
Active Member
Finally picked mine up! It's kind of surreal, didn't think I'd ever get it. It's charging outside now since the dealer didn't bother charging it, let's see what driving fill EV will feel like.
My first take is that it drives as smoothly as my Lexus ES 350, sound deadening is also great.
The bad... Sound system is terrible, definitely need to change it. And I really really wish it had ventilated seats, need to tint it ASAP.
I hope all my Canadian brethren will get their car soon!!
My first take is that it drives as smoothly as my Lexus ES 350, sound deadening is also great.
The bad... Sound system is terrible, definitely need to change it. And I really really wish it had ventilated seats, need to tint it ASAP.
I hope all my Canadian brethren will get their car soon!!
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No, that clause is not key at all. That clause is
irrelevant to the rebate issue.
All I said was the clause created a delay in negotiations because a party misinterpreted that clause. In the end that clause has nothing to do with any settlement l.
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thanks.
So if hypothetically my dealer doesn't come through. Would it be reasonable for me to have them to see that I get a 2019 at the same price as a 2018 and that the Ontario government rebates be covered by the dealer if they get cancelled?
Seeing as them going to court and losing would be the same result but with uncertainty for me and a hassle maybe settle for a little less?
why I worry so much is beyond me......but I guess I like to be prepared.
Your argument is pretty straight forward.
You need to demonstrate that you contracted for a 2018 Clarity and their failure to deliver a 2018 resulted in a loss of the rebate.
The dealership didn’t qualify the order by putting a ‘subject to availability’ clause, which they easily could have. No, they agreed to deliver a 2018 Clarity, that was the agreement. You placed your deposit in good faith that they would deliver a 2018. You ordered the 2018 because you wanted the rebate.
If it went to trial, you would need to provide the contract, proof that you gave consideration (deposit), explain whatever the dealership agreed to for delivery timeframe (ideally supported with email).
Then you would want to demonstrate how you would have met all rebate criteria if they honoured the contract (delivered vehicle).
You should also try and show what steps you took to mitigate your damages. I.e. once you were informed no 2018 Clarity was coming and you learned rebate was getting cancelled, what steps you took to look at alternatives vehicles that met your needs and could be purchased in time for rebate. Or why alternatives didn’t meet your needs.
Add in a search on canlii.org for any court cases you can find that are similar to yours and ruled in your favour. Then you explain how those cases relate to your case.
If you end up needing to sue, that is a way bigger discussion and should be saved for a separate conversation. But I’m just trying to give a summary of this particular issue being as perfect a cause and effect scenario for damages that it isn’t too hard to demonstrate their failure to deliver a 2018 clarity resulted in you losing out on the rebate.
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You need to demonstrate that you contracted for a 2018 Clarity and their failure to deliver a 2018 resulted in a loss of the rebate.
The dealership didn’t qualify the order by putting a ‘subject to availability’ clause, which they easily could have. No, they agreed to deliver a 2018 Clarity, that was the agreement. You placed your deposit in good faith that they would deliver a 2018. You ordered the 2018 because you wanted the rebate.
If it went to trial, you would need to provide the contract, proof that you gave consideration (deposit), explain whatever the dealership agreed to for delivery timeframe (ideally supported with email).
Then you would want to demonstrate how you would have met all rebate criteria if they honoured the contract (delivered vehicle).
You should also try and show what steps you took to mitigate your damages. I.e. once you were informed no 2018 Clarity was coming and you learned rebate was getting cancelled, what steps you took to look at alternatives vehicles that met your needs and could be purchased in time for rebate. Or why alternatives didn’t meet your needs.
Add in a search on canlii.org for any court cases you can find that are similar to yours and ruled in your favour. Then you explain how those cases relate to your case.
If you end up needing to sue, that is a way bigger discussion and should be saved for a separate conversation. But I’m just trying to give a summary of this particular issue being as perfect a cause and effect scenario for damages that it isn’t too hard to demonstrate their failure to deliver a 2018 clarity resulted in you losing out on the rebate.
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Hobbesgsr
Well-Known Member
Congrats dude!! I need to get mine ceramic tinted too. Best price I've seen is $350ish.
My ears must be getting old since the sound system sounds fine to me.
I've only seen one other Clarity literally on the road and that was while I was driving to the dealership this past Monday to pick mine up.
I did see one two days before parked but I'm not counting that.
I'm not surprised your Clarity's sound system doesn't measure up to the one in your Lexus. I hope everyone who finds ways to improve the Clarity's sound system will fill us in. The level of integration of the infotainment system will make it difficult to do anything with the head unit. Here's Crutchfield's Clarity page for upgraded speakers.
Atul Thakkar
Well-Known Member
I have decided to switch to touring model.
Will update when I get delivery
Will update when I get delivery
Someone near the dealer I made the deal with told me the guy up the street just got a Base model Clarity lately...was talking to him about it. The logic I have is my dealer says they never received a single base model since the car was introduced. Is that possible?
I was told by Ottawa Honda today that the manager spoke to Honda Canada and was told my Green Touring, order on March 8, is delayed and may not be produced until 2019 model year. They're checking if they can get me another colour. Does anyone in Ottawa have a Gray or Red they'd let me see in person? I really wanted the beige interior and that only comes in red or green. Any fellow Ottawans mind showing me their red Touring?! I'd really appreciate it!
Atul Thakkar
Well-Known Member
I don't know, I was bit worried about rebate being gone and my family was leaning towards touring model, so made a switch.
There is very recent article published on star on 20 june which was indicating rebate will be gone,/notably reduced ,so no point in waiting
Yes. A fair settlement is any scenario where you are no worse off.
Them delivering a 2019 rather than a 2018 would likely result in a higher cost for the vehicle and loss of the rebate. Let’s just call that $14k for example purposes.
So a settlement that pays you $14k, or saves you $14k, or any combination thereof would all be fair and equivalent. Ask yourself what costs you 100% would incur that the dealership may be able to provide to you for free that hold value $X to you, but are much cheaper for the dealership.
And you are right, reaching a settlement is always more cost effective that going to trial when your position isn’t rock solid.
Some possible areas to consider aside from them just cutting you a cheque.
-increased trade in or additional discount from previously negotiated
-prepaid scheduled maintenance
-accessories, winter tires, warranty, etc but only for items you 100% would have bought.
-if leasing/financing, lower rates or dealership making some payments for you. Or on lease increasing residual.
That list is not exhaustive and I’m sure everyone can think of more. But the main take away is that any arrangement that results in you being no worse off is fair (received $14k of value), so whatever that looks like that the dealership is happy with should be acceptable to you.
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I suggest following up with the dealership in writing to confirm why you are switching to the touring; confirm that you are upgrading because the dealer explained that if you don’t, you won’t get a 2018 at all.
Makes things a little easier if you decide at a later date to go to small claims court over the bait and switch upcharge. But you’ll have to file a complaint with the competition Bureau first who likely won’t do anything.
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Atul Thakkar
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Let's suppose that the rebate does not get cancelled, but the dealer says that they are unable to deliver a 2018 Clarity, if I am then unable to buy a 2018 Clarity from another dealer does it matter what car I buy next, or if I even buy a car at all?
If the only car that fit my needs was a 2018 Clarity, would I still be able to claim the lost rebate as damages? It seems like I should have because the specific dealer's actions prevented me from using a government incentive. In my case, I had an opportunity to buy a Touring from my dealer at the time of the purchase, but I chose a Base model because I was given a delivery estimate that I considered reasonable. As well, I did not conduct inventory checks at other Honda dealers because I was not aware that there was a potential issue with delivery.