What's the cost to replace the Clarity PHEV battery?

insightman said:
It took nearly 20 years for Honda to match the original Insight's EPA gas mileage with the upcoming 2019 Insight (although the new Insight will never match the original's hypermiling record of 1523.9 miles on a single tankful for a 109 mpg average).
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Yeah, but the gen 2 Insight has a back seat and some actual room in the back for luggage... both of which the gen 1 Insight was notably lacking!

HONDAInsight-892_9.jpg

The first generation Honda Insight HEV, showing the lack of rear seats and the shallow cargo space above the large NiMH battery pack.
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We have a 2006 Insight (85 mpg personal tankful record) and a 2010 Insight (48 mpg personal record). No one bought a gen 1 Insight only to be surprised it didn't have a rear seat. Honda went all-out to create a bespoke, all-aluminum, 70-mpg (by 2000 EPA standards) car, then sold it in the US for about half what it cost to build.

The Fit-based gen 2 Insight (I call it the Steel Insight) was rightly criticized for looking too much like a Prius. To save money, Honda didn't even give it their most fuel-efficient engine (the Civic Hybrid got that). Honda incorrectly guessed that the price, not the MPGs, was what would sell hybrid cars. The sales of the Prius proved that assumption invalid.

Now Honda's going the other way. If the rumors of a $32K price for the Civic-based Insight Touring are true, then Honda's betting that people don't care how much a hybrid costs or if it gets the highest fuel efficiency, as long as it looks good and has a nice interior. How can Honda sell an Insight for more than a Clarity (after the $7,500 fed tax credit)?

Toyota's yawning. They're more worried about Hyundai than Honda.

Still, I can't wait to test drive the US-built Insight, but I can wait for the Indiana plant to get comfortable building them--and for the inevitable sales incentives--before I get mine. I wish it was a hatch. Even more, I wish it was a lightened i-MMD powered CR-Z.
 
insightman said:
How can Honda sell an Insight for more than a Clarity (after the $7,500 fed tax credit)
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More choices for potential car buyers is a good thing, and will increase overall EV sales. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, and all that.

Unless an EV maker stupidly designs an EV passenger vehicle so that it has very limited practical use, and slaps a crazy high price on it (worst example: the Cadillac ELR, a Voltec-based PHEV), then there should be sufficient numbers of buyers to justify the auto maker putting the car into production.

As far as justifying a higher price: Tesla has proven that if the car is good enough, people will be willing to pay more for it. Even people who don't normally buy luxury (or "premium") cars.
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I'm wondering about if in the future, say 3-5 years, it might be possible to upgrade the battery in the Clarity to something with more capacity. It looks like Tesla offered something like this for the Roadster, but the price is $29,000!!!
 
Prices are coming down on batteries rapidly. The industry target for good price is $100 per kilowatt. Shirley in 5 years the price will be well below $100 per kilowatt. That puts the price of the clarity battery at $1,700 of course that doesn't include installation.
 
jdonalds said:
Prices are coming down on batteries rapidly. The industry target for good price is $100 per kilowatt. Shirley in 5 years the price will be well below $100 per kilowatt. That puts the price of the clarity battery at $1,700 of course that doesn't include installation.
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I see what you did with the Airplane movie reference. Well played sir, well played.
I don’t expect to have to replace my battery for at least 8 years. Hopefully even cheaper and with longer range by then.
 
jdonalds said:
Prices are coming down on batteries rapidly. The industry target for good price is $100 per kilowatt. Shirley in 5 years the price will be well below $100 per kilowatt. That puts the price of the clarity battery at $1,700 of course that doesn't include installation.
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Those are prices for the manufacturers. At the retail level, sold and installed by car dealers, the price is greatly magnified. If look at how the batteries are laid out, they would have to pretty much disassemble the entire car, remove each module and then replace. I can't even put a price on it but it'll be far higher than you would like.
 
Neil said:
I'm wondering about if in the future, say 3-5 years, it might be possible to upgrade the battery in the Clarity to something with more capacity. It looks like Tesla offered something like this for the Roadster, but the price is $29,000!!!
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As has been pointed out in discussions in other threads, it's not reasonable to suggest putting a new battery pack into an older car. Any replacement should be a refurbished pack, at a lower cost than a new one.

"...who would patch old clothing with new cloth? For the new patch would shrink and rip away from the old cloth, leaving an even bigger tear than before." -- Matthew 9:16 (New Living translation)​

The new battery pack for the 2008 Tesla Roadster is an exception. That's not merely a replacement battery pack, it's an upgrade for a small group of dedicated owners who have more dollars than sense! ;) And part of the high price is the very low volume of manufacturing.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
As has been pointed out in discussions in other threads, it's not reasonable to suggest putting a new battery pack into an older car. Any replacement should be a refurbished pack, at a lower cost than a new one.

"...who would patch old clothing with new cloth? For the new patch would shrink and rip away from the old cloth, leaving an even bigger tear than before." -- Matthew 9:16 (New Living translation)​

The new battery pack for the 2008 Tesla Roadster is an exception. That's not merely a replacement battery pack, it's an upgrade for a small group of dedicated owners who have more dollars than sense! ;) And part of the high price is the very low volume of manufacturing.
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If Honda doesn't sell a ton of Clarity Plug-In Hybrid cars, there will not be a robust group of aftermarket companies offering lower-cost replacements. Honda will then not have much incentive to offer battery packs that cost less than a new one today.
 
insightman said:
If Honda doesn't sell a ton of Clarity Plug-In Hybrid cars, there will not be a robust group of aftermarket companies offering lower-cost replacements.
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No offense to Clarity PHEV owners, but I think we can already state with confidence that there will not be "a robust group of aftermarket companies offering lower-cost replacements". More like some cottage industry individuals or small companies using salvaged packs from wrecked cars to make refurbished packs for the (very likely) small percentage of Clarity PHEV owners who decide to replace the battery pack on an older car, rather than trade the car in on a newer one.

Would you pay to replace the engine on a gasmobile that was several years old? That does sometimes happen, but I suspect the percentage of cars which get an out of warranty engine replacement is pretty small. I can't see why it would be otherwise for PHEVs and battery packs.
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Pushmi-Pullyu said:
Do you mean 7 modules? Li-ion battery cells within a pack have to be carefully balanced with each other. That's why an EV's li-ion pack absolutely has to have a BMS (Battery Management System). If one cell has a significantly higher or lower voltage than any other, that throws the entire pack out of balance, which leads to rapid aging and/or the inability to use much of the pack's capacity. So regardless of how many or how few modules a li-ion pack has, all of the modules would have to be replaced at once.

The alternative would be for every module to have its own individually operating BMS. That would allow for replacement of modules individually, but would certainly drive up the cost of the pack.
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Didn't Nissan open a refurbish facility for their battery packs in Japan.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ries-offered-for-older-electric-cars-in-japan

There seems to be a least one after market business that is reconditioning some of the older battery packs in the Toyotas and other vehicles.

I now see a second aftermarket business reconditioning Honda batteries.
 
marshall said:
Didn't Nissan open a refurbish facility for their battery packs in Japan.

https://www.greencarreports.com/new...ries-offered-for-older-electric-cars-in-japan
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Good point. But perhaps we should ask just why Nissan is doing this, when other EV makers are not. The Leaf is the only EV that has gotten a reputation for premature fading in its battery packs. Perhaps this is nothing more than an effort on Nissan's part to reassure prospective Leaf buyers that at least they can get a refurbished pack if their pack loses too much capacity?

Contrariwise, if this is the start of a trend, then I think that would be great. But in general, so long as the demand for EV li-ion batteries continues to exceed supply -- which it will for at least the next few years -- then I'm fairly sure most or all EV makers would rather use its limited supply of batteries to make a new car rather than to refurbish a car it has already sold. It is perhaps notable that the new, upgrade battery pack for the original Tesla Roadster uses LG Chem cells... not cells from Tesla's regular supplier, Panasonic.
 
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PHEV Newbie said:
Those are prices for the manufacturers. At the retail level, sold and installed by car dealers, the price is greatly magnified. If look at how the batteries are laid out, they would have to pretty much disassemble the entire car, remove each module and then replace. I can't even put a price on it but it'll be far higher than you would like.
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I agree with your assessment. However I did disassemble our 2008 Prius to clean the battery blower motor. Yes there was quite a bit of disassembly but at that time I determined that if the traction battery needed to be replaced I would do it myself. The extra expense would be for the device that is used to balance the cells. In the Prius it would be possible to replace cells rather than the whole battery if needed.

I presume I could do the same thing with the Clarity although it may require more disassembly than the Prius.

The biggest problem is the small volume of Clarity cars Honda predicts selling over 5 years. It's always better to buy high volume cars because more parts are available and costs drop.
 
qtpie said:
This link is for Clarity Electric (BEV) which has a bigger battery pack. Based on this price, cost for Clarity PHEV could be half. Can anyone find the link for 17kWh battery pack? Thanks.
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Quite right - I messed up. None of the parts sites list the battery pack price or MSRP, and some say discontinued or unavailable. However, one site says that it the specific model (1D100-5WJ-A01 which weighs 731 lb) replaces model 1D100-5WJ-A00 (which weighs 756 lb). I'm guessing they found a way to trim off 25 lb of excess weight. That model is available for $3924.97 (MSRP = $4460.19).

1D100-5WJ-A01: http://hondapartsnetwork.com/part/9797599/Honda-Part-1D100-5WJ-A01-Battery-Pack-Assembly
1D100-5WJ-A00: http://hondapartsnetwork.com/part/9779990/Honda-Part-1D100-5WJ-A00-Battery-As-Pack

If you seach the A00 part number there are a lot of sites that list it for ~$4K. So not an exact answer on the A01, but that is probably a close estimate for what the actual part would cost when/if they sell it.
 
My Clarity was damaged in a collision with a deer and I have the repair cost including replacement of the battery listed as part# 1D1005WJA02 at $6,101.97 plus about 15 hours of installation labor. I don't know if this is MSRP or a price negotiated with my insurance company. Incidentally, with what looked like minor damage to the right front corner of the car, the total bill came to over $20K!
 

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