What your SE will be worth 3-4 years later when any EV have 250 miles range ?
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Puppethead
Well-Known Member
Or a collector's item?
Actually, if you look at the prices of original Fiat 500e, early Leafs, etc., they hold value rather well.
Actually, if you look at the prices of original Fiat 500e, early Leafs, etc., they hold value rather well.
polyphonic
Well-Known Member
Leaf, Bolt, Kona, Niro, etc. all have 250 miles of range.
Most of us avoided those appliance EVs in the first place because we wanted something fun and more upscale.
Now, if they can make a small EV sports car with 250+ miles, more power to them! That would be something worth looking into.
Most of us avoided those appliance EVs in the first place because we wanted something fun and more upscale.
Now, if they can make a small EV sports car with 250+ miles, more power to them! That would be something worth looking into.
Rexsio
Well-Known Member
In my opinion no EV ever will be collector car bc of dead battery 10 -20 years later like all ICE cars hold a value . My 2014 BMWI 3 battery was $ 16000 without labor to replace but 7 1/2 years later was still going 75 miles as new 84 miles range .But I sold that car with 21000 miles only.
Rexsio
Well-Known Member
I have no interest in all those SUV,a Mini SE is only a car with balls ,and my previous i3 was there and Cyman is coming soon which could be my dream car to bad not 911 EV bc Porsche don’t want to down grade iconic design yet to make electric . Taycan 4doors not for me.
A Honda Insight collector bought my gen-1 Honda Insight to join his other two gen-1 Honda Insights. Bumblebee Batteries is doing good business keeping these 23-year old cars on the road.
There was a Honda Insight gathering at a wealthy Insight collector's sprawling estate north of Indianapolis a few years ago. At that time he owned 35 gen-1 Insights! Here he is with his line of Insights vanishing over the horizon. He has a complete machine shop with a lift in that giant garage in the background.
When there are lighter, more agile sporty EVs on the market, the value of the SE will be diminished. It will be very interesting to watch the prices of used SEs if the Chinese MINI Electric turns out to be heavier, slower, and less nimble.
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AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
EVs with more range are already available at a price close to what Mini now want for the SE, as I commented in another thread. Personally I think it is already problematic.
However, on the used market such practical considerations are even more important. People shopping for a car that’s at least 8 years old will care very much about range and repair cost. That’s why they tend to favor a Toyota but they may not be able to afford one or will be tempted by a newer, say 6 year old lower miles and/or higher status vehicle which is a bad idea.
This is why many interesting but expensive to fix ICE cars are available at low prices. The SE will suffer the same fate. After 8 years it is expensive to fix (battery) and from a practicality standpoint wasn’t that great to begin with. Someone buying 10 years from now will have a choice of a Mini with say 70% remaining battery so just under 80 miles of range, or a Kona which cost the same new with 70% of its 258 mile range or 175 miles.
The big question is how long will the batteries and other EV components truly last? This will have a big effect on used prices.
That said, I made a video comparing the cost of an SE with even a base model iCE mini where, due to incentives and running cost savings that showed the SE could be worth zero in 8 years and I’d still be better off buying it than a comparable gas car.
So as of right now, it’s still a good idea to buy one assuming you get the rebate and incentives. And the less you pay for it the better hence why I’m annoyed the signature is gone and the entry point is now $34k.
What the economics work out to if you sell in day 3-5 years are less clear even with battery warranty remaining but not all savings yet realized…
However, on the used market such practical considerations are even more important. People shopping for a car that’s at least 8 years old will care very much about range and repair cost. That’s why they tend to favor a Toyota but they may not be able to afford one or will be tempted by a newer, say 6 year old lower miles and/or higher status vehicle which is a bad idea.
This is why many interesting but expensive to fix ICE cars are available at low prices. The SE will suffer the same fate. After 8 years it is expensive to fix (battery) and from a practicality standpoint wasn’t that great to begin with. Someone buying 10 years from now will have a choice of a Mini with say 70% remaining battery so just under 80 miles of range, or a Kona which cost the same new with 70% of its 258 mile range or 175 miles.
The big question is how long will the batteries and other EV components truly last? This will have a big effect on used prices.
That said, I made a video comparing the cost of an SE with even a base model iCE mini where, due to incentives and running cost savings that showed the SE could be worth zero in 8 years and I’d still be better off buying it than a comparable gas car.
So as of right now, it’s still a good idea to buy one assuming you get the rebate and incentives. And the less you pay for it the better hence why I’m annoyed the signature is gone and the entry point is now $34k.
What the economics work out to if you sell in day 3-5 years are less clear even with battery warranty remaining but not all savings yet realized…
Texas22Step
Well-Known Member
IMHO, everyone (including many on this forum) seems to be fixated on "range." The SE is, and always will be, a city car. My previous car was a Honda Clarity PHEV, which (brand new) had an all-electric range of 47 miles, and I almost always was able to do my daily driving within that limitation. Even if the SE in some 8 - 10 years has a battery that has degraded to ~80 miles range will work very well as a city car. And, it will still be fun to drive.
(And my non-appliance Racing Green MINI SE (now discontinued by the brains at BMW) will be even more of a collectors' car.)
(And my non-appliance Racing Green MINI SE (now discontinued by the brains at BMW) will be even more of a collectors' car.)
In the immediate future, so long as there is a Federal tax rebate for new EVs and not used ones, the resale market for used EVs will take a beating compared to newer, more technically advanced, 'tax incentivized', and probably longer ranged EVs though I expect Federal tax rebate will end one day.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
The people in this forum typically own an EV or already know the one they want meets their needs.
Used car prices are affected by the perception of the general public and that is affected largely by the media.
You only have to look at how often range anxiety comes up, how much range people think they need (which is erroneously a tank of gas worth typically). You can also see the comments re used EVs based on the battery degradation of the only “old” mass market one we have, the Leaf. The original Leaf had poor range to begin with, and a non existent thermal management system for the batteries largest enemy, thus limiting it to those who understood that it met their needs. Throw in massive battery degradation and the pool of people to which it is still useful is reduced. That’s just a fact.
But at least it was cheap, if it’s a premium short range EV like an i3 the cost/benefit calculation becomes problematic. That’s why they suffer catastrophic depreciation.
As for people who don’t understand EVs and their actual use case, telling them 50 or 60 miles is all it will do puts them off. But some see a bargain for their very short commute if they can buy it for $5k and keep their truck.
Until the public is sufficiently educated about their actual range needs. All short range EVs, which become even shorter over time, are going to have a perception problem.
That said, we effectively paid under $23k for our SE out the door after rebates etc.
So if it lasts us 10 years before somehow becoming financially unviable it has, in essence, cost us under $190 a month which for a brand new car and potentially fuel (because we charge for free) that’s a bargain. So it’s worth it for us. But I did a lot of math before ordering it to make sure that no matter what happens I will be no worse off than if I bought something else.
But I don’t think anyone knows what the resale value will be of these cars after 8 years as EVs are too new, the fuel market and also regulation landscape is also unknown.
I’d be more concerned if I was changing cars every 3 years because people buying newish have higher expectations than those buying old cars. But then we have the current used car market with sky rocketing prices and general inflation so who knows…
Used car prices are affected by the perception of the general public and that is affected largely by the media.
You only have to look at how often range anxiety comes up, how much range people think they need (which is erroneously a tank of gas worth typically). You can also see the comments re used EVs based on the battery degradation of the only “old” mass market one we have, the Leaf. The original Leaf had poor range to begin with, and a non existent thermal management system for the batteries largest enemy, thus limiting it to those who understood that it met their needs. Throw in massive battery degradation and the pool of people to which it is still useful is reduced. That’s just a fact.
But at least it was cheap, if it’s a premium short range EV like an i3 the cost/benefit calculation becomes problematic. That’s why they suffer catastrophic depreciation.
As for people who don’t understand EVs and their actual use case, telling them 50 or 60 miles is all it will do puts them off. But some see a bargain for their very short commute if they can buy it for $5k and keep their truck.
Until the public is sufficiently educated about their actual range needs. All short range EVs, which become even shorter over time, are going to have a perception problem.
That said, we effectively paid under $23k for our SE out the door after rebates etc.
So if it lasts us 10 years before somehow becoming financially unviable it has, in essence, cost us under $190 a month which for a brand new car and potentially fuel (because we charge for free) that’s a bargain. So it’s worth it for us. But I did a lot of math before ordering it to make sure that no matter what happens I will be no worse off than if I bought something else.
But I don’t think anyone knows what the resale value will be of these cars after 8 years as EVs are too new, the fuel market and also regulation landscape is also unknown.
I’d be more concerned if I was changing cars every 3 years because people buying newish have higher expectations than those buying old cars. But then we have the current used car market with sky rocketing prices and general inflation so who knows…
SpeedyRS
Well-Known Member
How many ICE cars 10 or 20 years later have the same engines, gearboxes etc? Very few. How much for a new engine and gearbox in an ICE car? Probably not far off what you were quoted for your battery replacement in your i3. If you accept that to keep a car 20 years you'll have to spend significant money replacing key components then it's reasonable to assume that EVs would be as collectable as ICE cars. It's all hypothetical at this point anyway as no one knows what's going to happen.
What's not hypothetical is that an aging MINI Cooper SE with diminished range will always be more fun to drive and better looking than a Hyundai Kona.
No manufacturer is even hinting that they might someday produce a small, lightweight, good-looking, sporty EV to compete with the SE. While the current SE remains the only car in this small market niche, it will continue to be a desirable car. Perhaps more desirable if MINI decides to abandon this niche to compete with the Kona.
AndysComputer
Well-Known Member
It could be. But I have a feeling most enthusiasts will keep older ICE cars with manual transmissions.
That said, I'm enough of a geek that I'd love an early (modern) EV as I think they are historically important.
That said, I'm enough of a geek that I'd love an early (modern) EV as I think they are historically important.
Tommm
Well-Known Member
My buddy paid 8k for a leaf with 30k miles. He gets about 50 miles to a charge. I think it is 8 years old. I am not sure. While I take note of what cars people have, I don't take note the brand of peoples refrigerators or other appliances.
Tommm
Well-Known Member
In case you missed it, many years ago (Sept 08?) Peter Egan bought one or two insights and he wrote about them in R&T.
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Puppethead
Well-Known Member
Let's not forget how many people still love the original Mini. Sure, eventually batteries will need replacing in the SE. But if it's 10-20 years from now nobody knows what kind of aftermarket options will be available, or even how much a new battery pack will cost. We are still in the early days of BEVs, there's a lot of manufacturing and technology development ahead.
rajiv33
Member
EV's are a lot like any tech these days, especially phones. Better versions are always coming out which will impact long term value.
However, the current model SE's have several things going for it for down the road value:
-The state and federal incentives are still available (saving you anywhere from 20% to 30% off the total price) because the get in price is so much lower than all other EV's out there, but the incentive amounts stay the same. This especially helps if you are looking to drive this for a couple of years and then sell. You might be able to come close to breaking even in that scenario. Even long term, it will really lessen the depreciation sting.
-Charging infrastructure is improving rapidly as will people's idea of how much range you really need for a daily driver. In several years, people will realize that carrying around extra battery weight and wasting battery resources that could be used in other EV's will be more of a problem than fretting about range.
-And probably most important. This will likely be the last year of the current MINI body style everyone loves. Whether you like the new body style or not, the fact that these may be the last SE's with the old body style that come out of Oxford will give them some charm for selling down the road.
However, the current model SE's have several things going for it for down the road value:
-The state and federal incentives are still available (saving you anywhere from 20% to 30% off the total price) because the get in price is so much lower than all other EV's out there, but the incentive amounts stay the same. This especially helps if you are looking to drive this for a couple of years and then sell. You might be able to come close to breaking even in that scenario. Even long term, it will really lessen the depreciation sting.
-Charging infrastructure is improving rapidly as will people's idea of how much range you really need for a daily driver. In several years, people will realize that carrying around extra battery weight and wasting battery resources that could be used in other EV's will be more of a problem than fretting about range.
-And probably most important. This will likely be the last year of the current MINI body style everyone loves. Whether you like the new body style or not, the fact that these may be the last SE's with the old body style that come out of Oxford will give them some charm for selling down the road.
Carsten Haase
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. In 8 years, who knows what battery tech will be available. It'll definitely be cheaper per kWh than what's available now but you'll probably be able to increase the range and/or reduce the weight as well
ghost
Well-Known Member
I had a plug-in Clarity before my SE, too. I was also able to drive it mostly all-electric daily. Before that, I had an eGolf, which I loved. Since that was my first EV, I went through range anxiety, especially when it didn't charge overnight, and I was left driving on the second day in between charging. I haven't once had that experience w/ my SE, yet, so it's been nothing but bliss. I think familiarity is also a contributing factor to having a good experience.
