What does total GM recall mean for Konas?

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SeanH

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(I didn't see a thread on this, apologies if there is one)

When GM announced that it was recalling the batteries for the 2017-2019 models, it seemed to align with Hyundai's findings. Apparently there were some manufacturing issues in that time frame and so both companies would replace batteries from pre-2020 cars with news ones.

The newest recall has me very confused. GM is recalling every Bolt including the still-rolling-off-the-line 2022s.

My immediate questions were:
What does this mean for 2020-2022 Konas?
What does this mean for Bolts and Konas that have already had their battery replaced (presumably with ones made around the same time as those in the 2022 Bolts)?
 
SeanH said:
What does this mean for 2022 Konas?
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whatsapp-image-2021-08-13-at-08-30-29-jpeg.5817

Source:
https://www.hyundaikonaforum.com/threads/2021-22-kona-ev-battery-manufacturer.5027/page-2#post-40543
Somehow I feel a 12V reboot won't solve the problem:rolleyes:
 
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SeanH said:
(I didn't see a thread on this, apologies if there is one)

When GM announced that it was recalling the batteries for the 2017-2019 models, it seemed to align with Hyundai's findings. Apparently there were some manufacturing issues in that time frame and so both companies would replace batteries from pre-2020 cars with news ones.

The newest recall has me very confused. GM is recalling every Bolt including the still-rolling-off-the-line 2022s.

My immediate questions were:
What does this mean for 2020-2022 Konas?
What does this mean for Bolts and Konas that have already had their battery replaced (presumably with ones made around the same time as those in the 2022 Bolts)?
Click to expand...
Are you saying the battery fires on early Kona Electrics are related to the Bolt battery fires? I had not heard that. I'm no expert on EV batteries but I assume there's a number of potential defects that could cause fires.

While it's absolutely possible the issues with the two cars are identical or closely related, I had not heard any suggestion of that, at least not yet.
 
Danhen said:
Are you saying the battery fires on early Kona Electrics are related to the Bolt battery fires? I had not heard that. I'm no expert on EV batteries but I assume there's a number of potential defects that could cause fires.

While it's absolutely possible the issues with the two cars are identical or closely related, I had not heard any suggestion of that, at least not yet.
Click to expand...
They have the exact same problem (folded anode) and were both manufactured by LG in the same timeframe ... Coincidence?
 
Esprit1st said:
They just recalled ALL Bolts and EUVs ever built. So they definitely still have some issue.
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To me it would be mind boggling if GM was recently producing Bolts with any chance of the folded anode issue. They have to be fully aware of what Hyundai has been facing.

I was thinking the reason the recall included recent builds might be more for public relations (remember their history with the ignition switches?), or some top executive(s) decided they were not confident the engineers really have their arms fully around the cause of the fires (given apparently the last recall did not fully resolve the problem).
 
Well, they apparently said that all cars battery cells need to be tested and replaced if necessary. Why would they even think about doing that if there was no reason? This is apparently a $1.8 bin cost to GM.
 
Esprit1st said:
Well, they apparently said that all cars battery cells need to be tested and replaced if necessary. Why would they even think about doing that if there was no reason? This is apparently a $1.8 bin cost to GM.
Click to expand...
I would say to avoid confusion among owners and potential buyers of new and used Bolts. For an example of the alternative approach, see the Kona forum, i.e. here. This way GM doesn't need to to sort out vehicles and deal with being flooded with "what about me" calls and having to set up a program to figure out who is what and then get people to actually buy their explanation. It costs relatively little to ask owners to come in, run some tests as needed, and send people on their way with a piece of paper that says their car is cured and resale values is intact. Everyone gets to feel serviced and GM gets to have a complete once and for all solution which doesn't need to worry about "recall creep". I think they probably learned their lesson from their earlier approach. IMHO, of course.
 
The recall info on one site indicates that these are Bolts that have two concurrent faults, a torn anode and folded separator. We of course believe we only have the first defect and I haven't seen a definition of the second. It's not clear how Chevy dealers will diagnose either of those.

My recent realisation is that the construction of a pouch cell is a bit random for something that relies on geometric precision for safety. I don't recall if I had posted this photo before (which I have annotated with the 3 yellow arrows at the left) but you can see how some edges of the anode gets very close to the separator. This is what I think is the "folded anode", an edge left when cutting folded copper sheet part way around a bend, simply an artifact of a production shortcut. The photo happens to be of an older Bolt LG cell.

folded anode.webp
 
KiwiME said:
The recall info on one site indicates that these are Bolts that have two concurrent faults, a torn anode and folded separator. We of course believe we only have the first defect and I haven't seen a definition of the second. It's not clear how Chevy dealers will diagnose either of those.

My recent realisation is that the construction of a pouch cell is a bit random for something that relies on geometric precision for safety. I don't recall if I had posted this photo before (which I have annotated with the 3 yellow arrows at the left) but you can see how some edges of the anode gets very close to the separator. This is what I think is the "folded anode", an edge left when cutting folded copper sheet part way around a bend, simply an artifact of a production shortcut. The photo happens to be of an older Bolt LG cell.

View attachment 13228
Click to expand...
I remember that picture being posted on a different forum some months ago and was hoping you would post it here as well. IIRC there was a link to an engineering page, would you be so kind as to include that source?
Thanks:cool:
 
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Shark said:
To me it would be mind boggling if GM was recently producing Bolts with any chance of the folded anode issue. They have to be fully aware of what Hyundai has been facing.

I was thinking the reason the recall included recent builds might be more for public relations (remember their history with the ignition switches?), or some top executive(s) decided they were not confident the engineers really have their arms fully around the cause of the fires (given apparently the last recall did not fully resolve the problem).
Click to expand...
DelRider said:
I would say to avoid confusion among owners and potential buyers of new and used Bolts. For an example of the alternative approach, see the Kona forum, i.e. here. This way GM doesn't need to to sort out vehicles and deal with being flooded with "what about me" calls and having to set up a program to figure out who is what and then get people to actually buy their explanation. It costs relatively little to ask owners to come in, run some tests as needed, and send people on their way with a piece of paper that says their car is cured and resale values is intact. Everyone gets to feel serviced and GM gets to have a complete once and for all solution which doesn't need to worry about "recall creep". I think they probably learned their lesson from their earlier approach. IMHO, of course.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe. But first GM recalled all 2017-2019 cars. Then a 2020 caught fire. So clearly they are slightly concerned with some of the 2020s.
 
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