Very Simply 300 is insufficient
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- real world range
Baloney
I am forcing you to do nothing
I am expecting you to think
You refuse
You waste time and money and prattle on that EVs are a waste of time and money
Example
You are over 65, how many hours do you drive in a day?
It is 46 hours from my house to SF
If I drive 15 hours a day, which would be pushing it, I would get two hotel rooms on that trip
If I am driving your imaginary 500 mile vehicle, I must stop 8 times for gas, cause I don't run it to zero, now do I?
I must also stop for meals, and bathroom breaks
How many if I drive an 'average' EV?
So, if I stop every 160 miles I will stop 20 times
Holy Crap!
But let us examine that more fully
It took me 3 days to cross the country
So, I stopped for lunch 3 times.
No real plug in losses there
I spent 2 nights at hotels and plugged in there
no real losses there cause I plugged in overnight
So we are from 8 to 20
Still a difference of 12
But I am not really cannonballing with my 65 year old bladder, so I am going to say that once a day on that 3 day trip I am going to stop and piss and plug in and it really doesn't increase my time over a gas car
So, yes, 9 times we are stopping and charging where it is actually costing us time
So in my Kia which is old school 50 minute 10-80 it would take 7 1/2 hours longer to drive to San Fran
In a newer Tesla or Kia, half that time
over 3 days
Not seeing a hotel room there.
Maybe, but we did say long distance is not the forte of EV's
So if I drive to SF every 4 years, I am still ahead of your by half an hour.................
But you don't care, do you?
You haven't gone further than the coffee shop in years, you just like to complain
Own the libs
Here is a clue:
When you say silly things, you do not look smart
You don't own anyone
Baloney
you think most people do that?
Oh, wait I just did the math for you on almost exactly that number
you lose
Who has more baloney than a NY deli? ENIrogus. I didn't say most people do that. I said I do that. I wasn't going to use the "most people" example provided above since it doesn't apply to me.
And for the record, I AM a lib these days, in almost every way. At least compared to the current regime. But the math is the math.
And for the record, I AM a lib these days, in almost every way. At least compared to the current regime. But the math is the math.
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Indeed math is math
try it sometime
You spend a lot of time arguing with libs against people 'forcing' you to do things for a lib
No one has even really criticized your personal choices, but here you are arguing again
R P
Well-Known Member
That's a cannonball run, not what most people do. I was just testing your honesty, and you've confirmed my thinking.
Not quite a cannonball run, since I keep it legal, about 75mph. I'd like to go faster but I don't need any tickets and there really is too much traffic on this route to force it. But it is a long day. Once in a while I'll stop about 2/3 of the way to spend the night at a cousin's house, but that adds a few hours getting into and out of Atlanta. I have also stopped in Birmingham at a hotel now and then. Depends on how early I get going in the morning and how I am feeling.
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I never said any of you were trying to force me into anything. You are just trying to convince me of something that isn't factual, at least in MY use case. And this has nothing to do with politics, although I'll tell you I am actually in favor of a mandated timeline to make a conversion to EVs. It has been shown in the past that these sorts of mandates drive the technology and innovation while lowering the cost of same. Like for emissions control and safety stuff like seat belts and air bags. Never would have happened without the mandates and we are all better off for it. To work these have to be clear, achievable and consistent so the mfgs can develop coherent plans and the market will be there. But not likely in the current atmosphere. As of now and for the foreseeable the policies, costs and infrastructure simply favor fossil fuels and ICE vehicles. I didn't say that is a good thing. It just is.
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Not to mention the inconvenience of having your ride car-jacked, which is another common problem with gas stations.
My 1,200 mile trips between Huntsville and the StarShip tests are:
- 24 hours - Full Self Driving does the work while I supervise
- start-to-end trip speed ~50-52 mph
- 3 hours - first leg of the day on a full charge @0.12/kWh
- 1.5-2.5 hours - between SuperChargers @$0.32-36/kWh
- 15-30 minute bathroom, walk the dogs, snacks, and cat naps
- 2.5 hours - last leg at the motel charging @$0.00/kWh
- Driving around destination - from the motel, $0.00/kWh
Bob Wilson
Just sharing how I drive my EV on 1,200 mi trips between Huntsville AL and StarBase TX. In engineering we pick two from:
- GOOD - Full Self Driving does the work.
- FAST - 50-52 mph block-to-block speed.
- CHEAP - Free charging at motels, 1/3d cost charging at home, and parity with ~42 MPG ICE car @$3/gal.
How many hours in your "day?"
- 43 mph ~= 1050 miles / 24 hours
DaleL
Active Member
The range that is referred to is the WLTP calculation which is not the same as the USA EPA range. If you read further in the story: "Mercedes expects the new battery to extend the driving range by about 25%. The current EQS 450+ rated with up to 511 WLTP miles range would suggest a driving range of over 620 miles." The Mercedes EQS 450+ has a 339 mile EPA range estimate. 25% more range would be 424 miles with the EPA test estimate.
I have found that my Model Y meets my needs. On a day to day basis, I only charge it to 67% (2/3rds). If I need more for a trip on any given day, I can just go in the phone app and up the charge limit in advance. I've made repeated multi-state trips with no issues. Except for one time, I've always been able to use the Tesla Supercharger network. Still, even the Charge Point charger at the Ayerco gas station in Canton, Missouri worked just fine.
Bruce M.
Well-Known Member
I'd missed this, but Oslo has 3 months a year when the high temperature barely rises over freezing and lows are well below freezing. That's plenty cold enough to affect range. https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/norway/oslo
Keith Smith
Active Member
Not 1050, but I'll do 8-900. A whole lot of nothing on I-10 between Phoenix and Houston most of the way, and you can do 80-85 in an ICE. Unfortunately excessive speed is one other thing that will kill an EV's range. In the EV I try and keep it under 70. The Sonata I had would easily do 450+ miles on a 15 gallon tank of fuel running 80 down the interstate. Run 12-14 hours you can clock 800-900 miles in a day no problem.
Keith Smith
Active Member
I'll say it again. Plain old cold weather, meh, but hop in the car and crank the heat full blast tooling around on icy roads, you are doomed.
Doomed? Not so! In temperatures down to freezing the heated seats and steering wheel suffice for me not to need cabin heating at all. After all it's winter and I'm dressed for it. Below freezing I set the heat very low and the heat pump usually is enough so that the range loss is little more than air conditioning in the summer.
I moved my beloved 2018 40kwh Leaf S along because it didn't have a heat pump and finding a working Chademo charger could be challenging. I've been using a 77kwh VW id.4 a little over a year. It is a service vehicle and while most of my work is within 30km some of my clients are 200km away. In summer I can usually pull of the round trip without charging along the way. In winter one 25 minute stop is required. (10 min would do but I'm a little risk averse to arriving home with less than 5% battery).
I think there's some laws of diminishing returns at play with range and battery tech, and of course, cost.
a MFG'er could put in double the battery bank, but it wouldn't make 300 go to 600. you added weight, you added inefficiencies or other scale issues that reduce the doubling. Not to mention, you'll need to re-design the chassis to hold all the extra cells.
I love the idea of the ability to real-time charge as you drive someday for, in theory, limitless range. Solar chassis materials, wind turbines churning as you move, improvements to regenerative braking, roadway improvements (think, massive Qi charging at stop lights like your phone). We're years/decades away from these things, but it's fun to ponder about.
To the point, is 300 range enough? it's what most 'normal' ICE cars USED TO get. 9-10 gallon tank Civics getting ~30mpg = ~ 300 range
Today, we're nearer to the 400-500 range due to increased combustion efficiency and larger fuel tanks.
If you're seeing reduced range in cold weather, traffic, etc, down to the 250s or less, then yes, it probably becomes a problem/inconvenience.
As battery tech improves, i think we'll see the ability to get to 500-700 in this decade without hitting diminishing returns.
a MFG'er could put in double the battery bank, but it wouldn't make 300 go to 600. you added weight, you added inefficiencies or other scale issues that reduce the doubling. Not to mention, you'll need to re-design the chassis to hold all the extra cells.
I love the idea of the ability to real-time charge as you drive someday for, in theory, limitless range. Solar chassis materials, wind turbines churning as you move, improvements to regenerative braking, roadway improvements (think, massive Qi charging at stop lights like your phone). We're years/decades away from these things, but it's fun to ponder about.
To the point, is 300 range enough? it's what most 'normal' ICE cars USED TO get. 9-10 gallon tank Civics getting ~30mpg = ~ 300 range
Today, we're nearer to the 400-500 range due to increased combustion efficiency and larger fuel tanks.
If you're seeing reduced range in cold weather, traffic, etc, down to the 250s or less, then yes, it probably becomes a problem/inconvenience.
As battery tech improves, i think we'll see the ability to get to 500-700 in this decade without hitting diminishing returns.
Berate the weight!
A range of 110/114 miles doesn't work for every task, but I'm so glad MINI chose to offer a (relatively) lightweight EV, which (mostly) preserves the go-kart feel of the ICE MINIs. One of my two MINI Electric mottos is "Exchange the range for a ton of fun!" The other one is "Bounds about roundabouts, quietly acting out."
Even if the US was able to import the Chinese J01 MINI with about double the range, it's too heavy for serious roundabout duty IMO.