Very Simply 300 is insufficient

[Raylo]

You guys keep conflating the neeed for humans to stop with recharging opportunities. Having a much longer range just gives you so many more options. You can do quick human stops at the roadside rest areas multiple times in a long range vehicle without wasting time to refuel or charge. It also gives you many more options when it comes to choosing where and when to stop for fuel. And for the record again, I can go like that for 550 miles in my current ICE vehicle. Not 300, or ever the more realistic EV range of 200. Or I can stop earlier if I want to for some reason. I am not locked in to mandatory food/fuel/rest room stops on the battery's schedule every 200 miles or so... or sooner if the chargers aren't spaced out optimally. For me, that would be one slooow and frustrating road trip. IOW, a 500 mile nominal range, 400 mile actual range EV would be a FAR more useful road trip machine than a 300 mile nominal, 200 actual mile range EV.

But I do get the point that if you use the vehicle mostly for local driving, then paying a lot extra $ for that capacity would be foolish. For my usage EVs will not be very good fit for now. If we eventually get larger cheaper and hopefully lighter batteries, that may change.

When 300 miles is spoken of as not enough, it is just getting silly. Virtually every ICE vehicle would need to stop at this distance, virtually every human has to stop at this distance, so all you are talking about is how long that stop is..

 

[R P]

But I do get the point that if you use the vehicle mostly for local driving, then paying a lot extra $ for that capacity would be foolish. For my usage EVs will not be very good fit for now. If we eventually get larger cheaper and hopefully lighter batteries, that may change.

Let me just ask a few questions that may explain better for me your thinking about why an EV would not be a very good fit for you right now. First, would an EV be your only household car? What percentage of your driving would be long trips vs local driving (200 miles or less)? Can you charge at home (240V)? Cost of electricity (per kWh)? Cost of gas? When buying a car, any car, what do you look for, eg driving characteristics, acceleration, braking, comfort, ride quality, price (value for your money), etc, etc.? How long do you expect to keep it?

 

[Raylo]

I have already done all that analysis and have the answer.

Let me just ask a few questions that may explain better for me your thinking about why an EV would not be a very good fit for you right now. First, would an EV be your only household car? What percentage of your driving would be long trips vs local driving (200 miles or less)? Can you charge at home (240V)? Cost of electricity (per kWh)? Cost of gas? When buying a car, any car, what do you look for, eg driving characteristics, acceleration, braking, comfort, ride quality, price (value for your money), etc, etc.? How long do you expect to keep it?

 

[R P]

To save me going back and figuring that out, would be nice if you could just specifically answer my questions and have it all in one post. Thanks.

 

[ENirogus]

You guys keep conflating the neeed for humans to stop with recharging opportunities. Having a much longer range just gives you so many more options. You can do quick human stops at the roadside rest areas multiple times in a long range vehicle without wasting time to refuel or charge. It also gives you many more options when it comes to choosing where and when to stop for fuel. And for the record again, I can go like that for 550 miles in my current ICE vehicle. Not 300, or ever the more realistic EV range of 200. Or I can stop earlier if I want to for some reason. I am not locked in to mandatory food/fuel/rest room stops on the battery's schedule every 200 miles or so... or sooner if the chargers aren't spaced out optimally. For me, that would be one slooow and frustrating road trip. IOW, a 500 mile nominal range, 400 mile actual range EV would be a FAR more useful road trip machine than a 300 mile nominal, 200 actual mile range EV.

But I do get the point that if you use the vehicle mostly for local driving, then paying a lot extra $ for that capacity would be foolish. For my usage EVs will not be very good fit for now. If we eventually get larger cheaper and hopefully lighter batteries, that may change.

Everyone uses their vehicle for local driving
The question is whether the amount of long distance driving one does, is it worth the inconvenience?

I find it inconvenient to stop at the gas station every week, it costs me time and money.
I have not had to do so for 4 years, how much time has that saved me?

 

[Raylo]

5 minutes and on your way somewhere anyway. I go 2 weeks between fills locally. So, for me in a year that is about one charge session for an EV at a commercial charger.

I find it inconvenient to stop at the gas station every week, it costs me time and money.
I have not had to do so for 4 years, how much time has that saved me?

 

[DaleL]

I'll add my two cents to this thread. Out of Spec Studios conducted a 3,000 mile road trip that compared EVs to an Acura ICE powered car.

The gasoline powered Acura finished in 44 hours, 20 minutes. The Tesla Model 3 LR finished in 48 hours, 38 minutes. The Tesla took 10% more time. The Hyundai Ioniq 6 took 48 hours, 51 minutes. The worst EV was the BMW i7 eDrive50. It took 53 hours, 55 minutes.

https://www.motortrend.com/features/ev-electric-car-road-trip-cross-country-race/


I took my longest road trip last year in July. I drove my 2023 Tesla Model Y AWD LR 2,300 miles round trip from Florida to my hometown in Iowa and back. I did the return trip in 24 hours. I did rest for about 3.5 hours at a Buc-ee's, south of Atlanta. I put my car into "camping" mode and slept in the back. Had I been driving a gasoline powered vehicle, I might have cut the trip by a couple of hours.

Almost all of my day to day driving is local. I almost never have to use a DC fast charger. In contrast, when I had an ICE powered car, I had to go to a gas station every 7 to 10 days. I am very happy with the range and efficiency of my Model Y.

 

[ENirogus]

5 minutes and on your way somewhere anyway. I go 2 weeks between fills locally. So, for me in a year that is about one charge session for an EV at a commercial charger.

Oh is it now?
well, there is no gas station on my daily commute.
My cars need to be filled a little less than once a week
So I have to drive out of my way to get gas
It takes 20 seconds to plug my car in at home
It has never been fast charged in almost 4 years, 38k miles or something

Oh, and since your 500 mile range car only gets filled up every two weeks, and I doubt you get 500 miles in your daily use compared to highway, your actual use case means you need to charge an average EV less than once a week. There is a supercharger in my hardware store parking lot. I frequently spend 15 or 20 minutes there once a week. Chargers outside my gym

Look you hang out on an EV site and complain about how EVs don't work to a bunch of people who actually drive EVs, and fail to make a coherent point.

If you woke up in the morning and your car had been replaced by the EV fairy, it would work for your daily use, and would be a pain on long trips, just like everyone has been saying

 

[Raylo]

Not talking about you. But you must live in a very strange place. I go to the grocery store here in the 'burbs, there is a gas station there. On the way to the grocery store, that is 1/2 mile away, there are 2 more gas stations. Before I retired and had a 4 mile drive to work there were approximately a half dozen gas stations on the way. Maybe more. Some on the way into work and some on the way back. IOW, if I am on the road, there is a gas station on the way wherever I am going, even out in the rural nowhere. So I can't remember EVER having "go to" a gas station. I am already there and simply make a 5 minute stop.

Oh is it now?
well, there is no gas station on my daily commute.

 

[R P]

I think @Raylo is just a troll. He does not accept any pro EV arguments from EV owners, and just continues to push same old irrational arguments against owning an EV. When I asked him some specific questions about why he would not consider an EV, he refused to answer. At this point, he is just stirring the pot, and not worthy responding to.

 

[Raylo]

You're free to believe what you want. You already believe that stopping at a gas station for 5 minutes every couple of weeks is somehow an onerous burden so, IMO, you are obviously just "trolling" for EVs. All I am saying is that I will convert if and when it becomes frictionless and at least as cost efficient considering purchase cost, home charging and public fast charging. Until then you EV "trolls" can have at it and the rest of us will do what makes sense for us. I will continue to watch and follow the technology, which is fascinating, for the time when it makes sense for me to partake. Based on the current administration's policies and ties to fossil fuels corporations I now believe this may not happen in my lifetime, which is unfortunate in many ways.

I think @Raylo is just a troll. He does not accept any pro EV arguments from EV owners, and just continues to push same old irrational arguments against owning an EV. When I asked him some specific questions about why he would not consider an EV, he refused to answer. At this point, he is just stirring the pot, and not worthy responding to.

 

[R P]

If you want to have a meaningful discussion, start by answering my questions in a previous response to you. Otherwise go away.

 

[Raylo]

LOL... Dude, I don't need your opinion or discussion on that. Get a clue.

If you want to have a meaningful discussion, start by answering my questions in a previous response to you. Otherwise go away.

 

[ENirogus]

Not talking about you. But you must live in a very strange place. I go to the grocery store here in the 'burbs, there is a gas station there. On the way to the grocery store, that is 1/2 mile away, there are 2 more gas stations. Before I retired and had a 4 mile drive to work there were approximately a half dozen gas stations on the way. Maybe more. Some on the way into work and some on the way back. IOW, if I am on the road, there is a gas station on the way wherever I am going, even out in the rural nowhere. So I can't remember EVER having "go to" a gas station. I am already there and simply make a 5 minute stop.

I do not live in a strange place at all
Very normal place
I have a 7.5 mile drive and there are zero gas stations on the way. I must drive between 1-1/2 and 2 miles out of my way to hit one.
See how limited your perspective is?
Suburban, small town commuting to a small city


Wait, before you retired?
So, lemmee get this straight
You are basing your whole argument on your retired *** not doing what all the working people out there [who pay your social security] are doing every day?
Nice perspective

Sorry that your vacations are inconvenient

 

[Raylo]

Oh, good grief. I never said my "perspective" applied to you or anyone else. LOL. If an EV works for you, great! They just are not ideal for some of us, at least not yet. But no gas station in 7.5 miles. Sounds like a strange place to me. Or just very rural. And BTW, I contributed a shitload of $ into Social Security and I am not going to waste it by overpaying for an EV and then not being able to easily road trip it.

I do not live in a strange place at all
Very normal place
I have a 7.5 mile drive and there are zero gas stations on the way. I must drive between 1-1/2 and 2 miles out of my way to hit one.
See how limited your perspective is?
Suburban, small town commuting to a small city


Wait, before you retired?
So, lemmee get this straight
You are basing your whole argument on your retired *** not doing what all the working people out there [who pay your social security] are doing every day?
Nice perspective

Sorry that your vacations are inconvenient

 

[ENirogus]

You're free to believe what you want. You already believe that stopping at a gas station for 5 minutes every couple of weeks is somehow an onerous burden so, IMO, you are obviously just "trolling" for EVs. All I am saying is that I will convert if and when it becomes frictionless and at least as cost efficient considering purchase cost, home charging and public fast charging. Until then you EV "trolls" can have at it and the rest of us will do what makes sense for us. I will continue to watch and follow the technology, which is fascinating, for the time when it makes sense for me to partake. Based on the current administration's policies and ties to fossil fuels corporations I now believe this may not happen in my lifetime, which is unfortunate in many ways.

And you don't believe in math
I have not spent that 5 minutes for almost 4 years and you do not accept that reality
By my calculations, you have spent 8 hours, 8 fooking hours wasted in the last 4 years that I did not, not even talking about the wasted time driving
Oh, but a couple hours on a cross country trip is wasted time
What else would you be doing?
ARE you really cannonballing cross country in your retirement?
Baloney

You are so totally full of it
Your weak *** trolling is just that
You
have
no
point

 

[Raylo]

LOL... a few hours extra on a long road trip day don't mean just losing a couple hours, it means having to stop for a hotel. And you refuse to see the math that stopping for gas a total of an hour and a half a *year* locally is like one single stop in an EV at a public charger for *one* charge. LOL. This discussion is silly. You do you and I'll do me. OK?

And you don't believe in math
I have not spent that 5 minutes for almost 4 years and you do not accept that reality
By my calculations, you have spent 8 hours, 8 fooking hours wasted in the last 4 years that I did not, not even talking about the wasted time driving
Oh, but a couple hours on a cross country trip is wasted time
What else would you be doing?
ARE you really cannonballing cross country in your retirement?
Baloney

You are so totally full of it
Your weak *** trolling is just that
You
have
no
point

 

[ENirogus]

LOL... a few hours extra on a long road trip day don't mean just losing a couple hours, it means having to stop for a hotel. And you refuse to see the math that stopping for gas a total of an hour and a half a *year* locally is like one single stop in an EV at a public charger for *one* charge. LOL. This discussion is silly. You do you and I'll do me. OK?

Neither math nor reading comprehension is your forte
I have spent ' zero' time in 4 years at fast chargers
Z
E
R
O

you have spent, by your own admission, 8 hours at gas stations that I have not

Add in, as I noted, that locally chargers are located conveniently where I go, so again, if I had the need, virtually zero time.
I should go to the gym more, in which case I would not need to spend any time charging

You are a deliberate fool, loudly expressing your opinion without taking in new information

 

[Raylo]

There you go forcing YOUR perspective. I never said you did, but many of us would not have that luxury. I have multiple scenarios in MY life where I'd be looking for a public charger even locally. And like I said, even ONE of those would equal an entire YEAR of ICE fueling time. Again, if it works for you, great. Doesn't mean it works for me. What part of that don't you understand?

Neither math nor reading comprehension is your forte
I have spent ' zero' time in 4 years at fast chargers
Z
E
R
O

you have spent, by your own admission, 8 hours at gas stations that I have not

Add in, as I noted, that locally chargers are located conveniently where I go, so again, if I had the need, virtually zero time.
I should go to the gym more, in which case I would not need to spend any time charging

You are a deliberate fool, loudly expressing your opinion without taking in new information

 

[R P]

LOL... a few hours extra on a long road trip day don't mean just losing a couple hours, it means having to stop for a hotel. And you refuse to see the math that stopping for gas a total of an hour and a half a *year* locally is like one single stop in an EV at a public charger for *one* charge. LOL. This discussion is silly. You do you and I'll do me. OK?

Speaking of math, let's say you are on a long road trip with your ICE car, and travel 868 miles in your day (most people do less) before stopping at a hotel overnight. How many stops and how much time in total would your stops have taken? This would be for gas fill-ups (at Costco), eating at restaurants (could be fast food), and bio breaks. Let's not assume you are on a cannonball run.