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alc

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Hi Guys,

I am fairly new to my Clarity and to PHEVs. I really have enjoyed the first 800 miles, but it with everything that is going on it got me thinking about getting a generator and a transfer switch. Then I read a couple articles where Mitsubishi in Europe and Japan is working on a system to allow you to use a Mits PHEV to charge via solar and also use the PHEV to power your house at peak times. There are also some folks that are using their Nissan Leafs as backup battery sources in cases of emergency. So I wanted to pose a few questions to the forum:

1) Could you attach a DC to AC inverter to the Clarity to power your house in case of emergency? Is this even possible or does the Honda software prevent you from doing this?
2) If the battery started to run low, would the ICE kick in to charge the battery?
3) As I understand it, the ICE will only charge the battery to ~58%. Will the ICE charge the battery at idle or does it need to be on the road to charge the battery?
4) I have also heard that the charging time to 58% by the ICE is ~1 hour at highway speeds. Is there any way to determine what it would be at idle?
5) How much gas do you think it would use to charge the battery?

Let's hear from the folks smarter than me on their thoughts or anyone who has given this a shot.

Thanks.
 
I have not tried this, but as I understand it from reading all the posts here is that the 12 Volt battery is only charged when the car is turned on to the ready to drive position. (Don’t know about the in between position)
Be aware that this position (ready to drive) can and will cause the engine to start when the battery gets low according to one post. Of course if you have HV selected, it’s guaranteed to come in sooner or later. So be careful about Carbon monoxide poisoning.
Then others have used an inverter to power just a very limited selection of critical circuits in their house.
So it’s doable, but must be done with safety in mind. And no suicide double male ended cables!
Too bad Honda didn’t build this in. They offer a converter box in Japan for the FC (I think) version but it’s hideously expensive.
 
Unfortunately our (Canada/USA) PHEV's do not have CHAdeMO connections for direct access to the HV battery pack. Therefore you are limited to the 12volt rail provided by the DC-DC converter (350v-14.4 volt). Many owners of Chevy Volts have used this system to run moderate power inverters to power some household loads. The Volt DC-DC converter is spec'd at 14.4 volts at 165 amps maximum (I believe it is air cooled). I have been unable to find a published spec on our Honda converter, that is liquid cooled, however the battery charging circuit is fused at 175 amps. Therefore one could make the 80% assumption that it is around 140 amps (if someone has indeed found the actual spec it would be great to chime in!!!) I may have to hop back on the tech site for a day and do more digging. Last time I was on it I was on an "sound system" mission....

Here is the basics of the issue that has been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere. Without access to the HV battery directly (well, you can get access but it takes your car apart and can be deadly) you really have very few high power options. You cannot get any true sine wave split phase 240 volt inverters in those low wattage categories (maybe special order but...). You are limited on the 12 volt side by 140 amps (presumably) so approximately 1680 watts (ok, technically 2000 watts but you are still charging the battery on the feedback loop so the draw will be in the 13 volt range). You also only get about 85% on throughput inverter efficiency (depending on the one you buy) so lets just say maybe 1500 watts best case. That's not much when you are talking about home loads (remember this is MAXIMUM sustained wattage). You can run a refrigerator and lots of lights (assuming they are LED or Fluorescent, not incandescent) but that is about it. Our 12v battery isn't that big so large starting loads would likely drop below the minimum run voltage of most inverters causing them to cycle (bad for refrigeration compressors).

The next big issue is efficiency. You have to have your car ON (not accessory) so the 12 volt battery is being charged. Unfortunately that means all the vehicle systems are on as well. You can turn off your climate control, lights, and such - but there are a lot of parasitic loads that are "unnecessary" for your purpose of running an inverter to power your home. Your car will be running its systems cooling loop full blast trying to keep the DC-DC converter cool. The car has to be outside so when the ICE starts to maintain your HV battery you don't kill yourself with CO. So, then your "car and a generator" is now an "unbelievably expensive generator ON WHEELS" and likely a high theft target if you cannot secure it. Again.. it is ON and likely unlocked unless you climbed out a window and boarded it up. If you have a secure back yard then maybe.... In severe storms when large scale power outages, generators are easily found by the noise, and often and unfortunately stolen. Maybe a $600, 9000 watt portable generator from Harbor Freight is sounding like a better idea. They are not robust, but for "occasional short term emergencies, quite adequate"....

If we had CHAdeMO, which is actually on some versions of our vehicle over seas and on the BEV, then that would be a completely different story. There are several open source (everyone who knows me is, likely not surprised to hear me say that) options to build your own version of the Charge-Inverter for Home.
https://insideevs.com/news/318918/n...d-leaf-to-home-power-supply-systems-in-japan/

Believe me as I really wanted to do this, it is just more problems than it is worth - and actually after your ICE comes on, less efficient than most portable generators out there and certainly more expensive. Not to mention you really cannot secure that moderately prices inverter now sitting next to your open hood of the car due to the short DC cable requirements so... hope that doesn't walk away.

GoWISE Power PS1005 Pure SINE Wave Inverter 1500W Cont/3000W Peak was $250 on Amazon.

Oh, and another final thought. The Clarity systems are highly monitored by the on board computers. Honda is using the Clarity to gather end user operating and functional dynamics for their future product line. Maybe why the prices were so attractive, who knows. However, I can assure you that the DC-DC converter running at max capacity for more than 10 minutes (recharging a low 12 v battery) will be noted. Four hours of high current will likely flag something. Not saying it voids your warranty but if the DC converter fails, it is unlikely Honda would be unable to figure out something. I do doubt you can damage anything as all these components have protections built into them that would shut them down.

Just my ramblings on the whole thing, sorry for being so verbose.

Cheers,

Cash
 
So, to paraphrase @Cash Traylor, if you end up using gas to power your Clarity to power your house in a utility outage, just get an appropriate sized Honda generator and hook it up to a transfer switch. I have a 5000 Watt Honda with 120/240V output that I run for a total of an hour a day in an outage. It uses less than 2 quarts of gas and an hour a day is all that's needed to keep the house ok if you're careful and creative. (I heat with a wood stove.)
 
Another option, if you have natural gas, would be to install a whole house (10-20K) generator that runs on natural gas. We did this at a lake house in Michigan. Longest outage to date is 8 days.

Tri-fuel generators are another option. They will run on Gas/Natural Gas or Propane. Propane never goes bad. Gas generators can be converted to run on propane. I had a Yamaha generator converted and would recommend splurging a bit on a Honda or Yamaha model.

Once you get all this together, you may be able to trade it for a 24-pack of toilet paper.
 
Sandroad said:
So, to paraphrase @Cash Traylor, if you end up using gas to power your Clarity to power your house in a utility outage, just get an appropriate sized Honda generator and hook it up to a transfer switch. I have a 5000 Watt Honda with 120/240V output that I run for a total of an hour a day in an outage. It uses less than 2 quarts of gas and an hour a day is all that's needed to keep the house ok if you're careful and creative. (I heat with a wood stove.)
Click to expand...

HA!!! Yes, I apologize for recommending HarborFright (yes, spelled intentionally). We own Honda cars, get a Honda Gen! Later, cash (capitalized correctly, as Honda gens are not cheap but are good).
 
Way cheaper and more efficient to use a portable generator. I have a Champion 7500 watt dual fuel generator that I can connect to my home via a 10 circuit transfer switch. It runs on either propane or gasoline and provides enough power to run anything that uses 120v AC power. Only limitation is that it can't run my central air or electric oven. It will run a 7000 btu window air conditioner no problem.

Cost? $799 for the generator at Tractor Supply, $300 for the 10 circuit transfer switch, $250 for a licensed electrician to install the transfer switch.
 
Cash Traylor said:
So, then your "car and a generator" is now an "unbelievably expensive generator ON WHEELS" and likely a high theft target if you cannot secure it. Again.. it is ON and likely unlocked unless you climbed out a window and boarded it up. If you have a secure back yard then maybe.... In severe storms when large scale power outages, generators are easily found by the noise, and often and unfortunately stolen.
Click to expand...

Off topic but news to you: to lock the vehicle while leaving it running, slide out the physical key from the fob housing insert it in the driver's door lock and turn.
 
@Steven B

My FOB protector combined with my janitor key ring makes that a chore to do. I forgot about that physical key option. Haven't used a removable key in so long I forgot about them... Good point!

However, also an important fact, since my post above and comment was related to vehicle security when you leave it "ON," is that even if you lock it as you describe - your alarm and immobilizer are disabled. So even though it is locked, a thief could simply break the window, unlock it from the inside, and drive away. This actually occurs very often all over the country (and world) when people do this to run their cars for preheating (when not a factory option to do via remote with car locking) or "just running into the store." Most factory car alarms are disabled when the car is on, for obvious reasons. Only if the car supports remote start does it also engage door locks and security alarms for opening a door without the FOB or key (ie, from the inside). It is likely why you have to hit lock, then climate on your FOB to use that feature, even in the Clarity - as there is probably a certification regulation somewhere in auto manufacturing that requires that, even though it makes no sense for a PHEV/BEV/EV etc.

Cheers,

Cash
 
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