Using the Clarity as an emergency power source

Hi.Ho.Silver

Hi.Ho.Silver

Active Member
I live in the Raleigh-Durham area and it is likely we will lose power tomorrow due to Florence. I have purchased and tested a 1000 watt 12 volt input inverter for powering our refrigerator and our freezer during the outage. I am trying to figure out a simple way to ensure that the ICE does not start unexpectedly since the car must be in the on/ready-to-drive mode to provide high power to 12V battery. I feel that it is not safe to leave the car unattended in my garage unless I can be certain the ICE will not start and generate CO.

A look under the hood reveals a lot of electrical connectors but nothing that would obviously disable the ICE other than disconnecting the four spark plug connectors. Ideas are appreciated.
 
I am not going to directly answer your question, sorry. (Putting aside the wisdom of this, spark plugs seem like a good place to start. Edit: Fuse B4 under the hood is labeled as "ignition coil relay/ignition coils, via the relay" in the service manual.). But two questions:

-I assume that this inverter clips right onto the 12V battery pos and to ground (like jumper cables)--correct? No inverter plugged into an accessory circuit could provide 1000W, as the car's internal wiring and fusing couldn't handle the 80+A involved.

-Is this going to do what you want? Assuming the inverter actually runs at 500W (0.5 kW)average, and the Clarity's battery has 8kWH available to use (before it looks scary), that's only 16 hours of power.

-I'm not sure if you have time now, but please freeze as much water as you can in the freezer. Or buy ice if any still available in your area. Each gallon of water you freeze will later require 0.4kWH of energy to melt it (the heat of fusion for 4L of water), and during which the gallon will stay at 32 deg. Though it won't be perfect, and depends on how warm your house is, but my guess is each gallon could add 0.5-2 hours to the time before things start to liquefy (depends on lots of assumptions).

Note that other threads have pretty much agreed that a generator is better, but a) I doubt that is an option and b) your power needs are much less than supplying a whole house.
 
I also am not going to answer the question other than to say I wouldn't risk damaging my Clarity for this. I live in Raleigh and started filling and freezing every empty bottle I could get my hands on Tuesday evening and have two coolers ready to go if needed. We ALWAYS lose power in my neighborhood but rarely for more than a couple days (except Fran when it was 11). There are power company trucks assembled all over North Raleigh so hopefully outages will be minimal.

Good luck,

geo
 
jorgie393 said:
I am not going to directly answer your question, sorry. (Putting aside the wisdom of this, spark plugs seem like a good place to start. Edit: Fuse B4 under the hood is labeled as "ignition coil relay/ignition coils, via the relay" in the service manual.). But two questions:



Thanks for the input. I'll check that fuse. Yes the inverter has heavy cables that clip directly onto the battery so it can handle 80 amps input. We have lots of water frozen along with ice. Hopefully we won't need it.
Click to expand...
 
Apologies to the OP. He (she?) was part of an earlier discussion re. many if the technical issues if this, such as the DC-DC inverter capacity. So I trust his/her decision.

https://www.insideevsforum.com/comm...urce-dc-dc-converter-size-idle-behavior.1027/

Also, my comment re freezing thing is true, but less important than I thought. I was trying to make the point that the heat-sink capacity of ice is not trivial compared to the smount of energy in the Clarity’s battery. But this is not the right comparison. I forgot that the coefficient of performance for a refrigerator or freezer, being a heat pump, is 4-5. In other words, they can move 4-5 kWH of heat out of the freezer for each 1kWH energy that they use. So the Clarity’s battery, driving that heat pump, has a much larger total capacity to move heat than I thought.

Still worth freezing, but wanted to correct.
 
We had a 24 hour power outage in NC due to the latest hurricane (Michael). I was able to successfully run my large LG 3-door fridge along with a small to medium chest freezer plus some LED lights using a 1000 watt inverter connected to the 12 volt battery terminals of my Clarity. Both units each drew about 125 watts in the running state. During the 24 hours, I believe I consumed about 40% of the big batteries capacity. I think this a viable alternative to a portable generator for limited powering of appliances and lights.
 
Did you have to turn the car on to have the 17kW hv battery keep the 12v battery full to do this or will it do so with the car off.
It’s a great idea for powering an energy efficient fridge for a short duration power outage.
 
That's great that it worked out!
What inverter did you use?


Fwiw, some hybrids can have the 12V battery spike a little for a very short time, while the high voltage battery pack is charging the 12v battery. That can trip the input over-voltage protection on some inverters.

Some other tips:
A 2-gauge, or thicker, wire should be use. It has to be connected directly to the battery.
Make sure the inverter is not in a closed space (inside the vehicle, under the hood, in the trunk, etc). The inverter needs to cool itself.
The electric motors on things like refrigerators have a very high initail current draw. If an inverter isn't sized correctly, it will trip and turn off the inverter from too high of a load.
To be safe, I strongly suggest a Pure Sine Wave inverter. That's especially true for items that have motors, like a refrigerator, small AC unit, etc.


Some suggestions for inverters:

My main suggestion is a top quality inverter, that also costs like one. :)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004L08GME/
Magnum Energy MMS1012
Price: $761
1000W 12V Inverter, MFG# MMS1012, pure sine wave inverter providing a cost effective solution for smaller power needs in mobile applications, 1000W continuous power, 12v, 120VAC @ 60Hz.
Specs: http://www.magnum-dimensions.com/file/2157/download?token=s7nyXLxB

NOTE: This inverter can be both an inverter and a battery charger. This way, someone could have a bank of batteries, and this would keep the batteries charged. Then, when main AC power is lost, it would enable the 12v to 120V inverter. Typically, that inverter output would go to a separate breaker, or a transfer switch.
So, with a battery like the following:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KN7K48W
Renogy Deep Cycle Pure Gel Battery 12V 200Ah
Price: $438.92
You a person would have 24 kWh vs the Clarity's 17 kWh.
However, unlike the Clarity, a person could not start the engine and/or drive it to get more gas to charge the batteries. :)



Another inverter that is popular with the hybrid crowd,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C73A3K/
Aims 1000 Watt Pure Sine Power Inverter 12 VDC to 120 VAC USB Port ETL Listed to UL 458
Price: $198.66
1000 Watt continuous and 2000 Watt surge
Pure sine wave perfect for all equipment up to 8.3 amps
ETL Certified to UL 458 Standards
Over load, temp, circuit protections and low battery alarm


I hope the above helps.
 
The inverter that I used is a Quesvow 1000watt continuos that I bought on Amazon for $65. I started the fridge and freezer one at a time and used less than 50% of the output.
 
So I know this is old, but if you press the power button twice without pressing the brake pedal, the car will start charging the 12v battery. I'm not sure what the difference is between fully turning the car on with the brake pedal, but I think it's the same effect.

BTW, does anyone know what the power capacity of the 12v charging circuit might be? I love the idea of being able to use the car as a back-up generator.
 
I drew 1000 Watts through an inverter connected to the battery over several hours without a problem. I suspect the AC system which runs off the 12 V draws far more than that.
 
I know this is a very old thread that I’m reviving but want to comment to give another perspective of using a Clarity for power loss or hurricane preparedness.

Nowadays there’s a flood of “cheap” (meaning sub $1,000) solar generators on the market. Years ago these were extremely expensive and very limited with options but currently there’s a ton from reputable brands like Ecoflow, Bluetti, Jackery, Anker, etc.

All of those solar generators essentially have the capability to charge from 12v dc with a car adapter. My plan is to use my solar generator with solar panels but if needed, I can charge it from the Clarity. There are 2x 180w plugs in the car. The solar generator I have will charge from 12v/10amps max so at most it can pull is 120watts which is safe since the max output is 180.

I’m assuming these outlets draw from the 12v battery, but the HV battery charges the 12v battery so there shouldn’t be any issue with drawing that power. And the Clarity can go into recharge mode while in park, so in theory it’s a giant generator.

Since the fuel tank is only 7 gallons, that allows the ability to easily store 5-gallons gas cans for refilling if need be, essentially if you believe you won’t have power back for a long time.
 
Those sub-$1000 solar generators typically have about 1000 watts of capacity, or less. Translation: It may power a 100w load for 8-10 hours. If it only charges at 10A, it will take 8-10 hours to fully recharge once depleted. In a hurricane, with 85mph winds and a torrential downpour it may take a bit longer to charge the batteries. That’s if the panels aren’t blown away.

Those things look impressive in the sales pitch videos. Once called to task, it’s a different story.

Why not buy a $200-300, 1000 watt inverter and connect it to the 12V in the Clarity? That will run 800-1000 watts every hour for at least 12 hours before the engine fires up. Then you have 7 gallons of gas that’s easy to replace. You have access to a 17kWh battery. Why would you spend $1000 on a 1kWh battery that’s packaged with a small inverter/charger and a few outlets? On top of that, you’ll pay a premium for some inferior portable solar panels.
 
GrayRed said:
So, with a battery like the following:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KN7K48W
Renogy Deep Cycle Pure Gel Battery 12V 200Ah
Price: $438.92
You a person would have 24 kWh vs the Clarity's 17 kWh.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. A 12V, 200Ah battery would have 2.4kWh’s of stored energy. Being that this particular battery is a wet cell, the manufacturer would likely not recommend discharging the battery to 0% SOC. Guidance would probably be 50%, possibly as low as 25%, which would leave a useable capacity of 1.2-1.8kWh’s. Additionally, this type of battery would take considerably more time to reach 100% SOC as compared to a lithium battery.
 
Landmark wrote: "Those sub-$1000 solar generators typically have about 1000 watts of capacity, or less. Translation: It may power a 100w load for 8-10 hours.", Landmark should have said 1000 watt-hours of capacity as that is the stored energy available. Power, in watts, is how fast the energy can be supplied. Landmark uses the correct energy vs. power terminology in a subsequent post so he knows this.

BTW, decent nominal 12V, 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries are available for less than $250 US at this time. Thus, a 17kWh system, the Clarity's energy capacity, would cost about $4k US (with an inverter to get 120V/240V output). Any charging system (solar or from the grid) would be an additional cost. This cost is quite reasonable, in my opinion.

LeoP
 
leop said:
Landmark should have said 1000 watt-hours of capacity as that is the stored energy available. Power, in watts, is how fast the energy can be supplied. Landmark uses the correct energy vs. power terminology in a subsequent post so he knows this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for catching that.

It looks like Spellcheck won’t allow Landshark.

leop said:
BTW, decent nominal 12V, 100Ah LiFePo4 batteries are available for less than $250 US at this time. Thus, a 17kWh system, the Clarity's energy capacity, would cost about $4k US (with an inverter to get 120V/240V output). Any charging system (solar or from the grid) would be an additional cost. This cost is quite reasonable, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree it is reasonable. However, I would ask, for what application? Occasional backup power during temporary outages?
It can work under certain conditions. It won’t run a heat pump or air conditioner for more than a few hours, if at all. It will also need 3K-5K watts of solar panels, which won’t do much in December or on a cloudy day. Now you’re looking at a fossil fuel generator to recharge the batteries or take some of the load. Been there, done that.

Solar and batteries saved our bacon on several occasions, sometimes with a little extra work. A backup generator runs the whole show.
 
I've been using my travel trailer's solar setup (two LiFePo4 batteries with 420Ah total, 2200w inverter, 1k solar panels) as a short term (a few hours) home power backup system for the past two and a half years, and it has worked great. For longer outages, I have a portable generator. Both bring power into the house via a manual transfer panel. When not traveling, the trailer always is connected to the transfer panel so, when power goes out, I just need to turn on the inverter (via Alexa or an RF remote) and then switch on trailer power to whichever of 10 circuits I want at that time. It takes less than 30 seconds to have power again, and I don't even have to step outside of my house.

To make fuller use of its solar capabilities (i.e., not waste all the daily solar power it can generate), I also use it daily to reduce my reliance on grid power during peak Time Of Use periods (5-8pm) -- doing so saves me approximately $200-300 per year in energy charges so, eventually, the trailer's solar system will pay for itself. That system, along with my house's rooftop solar, keeps me at net-zero with PGE every year.
 
NorCalPete said:
I've been using my travel trailer's solar setup (two LiFePo4 batteries with 420Ah total, 2200w inverter, 1k solar panels) as a short term (a few hours) home power backup system for the past two and a half years, and it has worked great.
Click to expand...

I’m definitely a fan of solar panels and battery backup, having installed a residential system 12 years ago and an RV system a few years back.

Your TT set up has about 4 times more battery capacity and 6 times more solar than many of these solar generators that are packaged with a 160w panel, and you understand its limitations. One circuit, and with a heavy enough load, it could drain the battery even while the solar panels are producing electricity. Load management is essential.

I’m not a fan of the solar generators being advertised as a home backup system. They are acceptable for campsite power. However, one has to ask themselves if they are willing to leave a $1000 set up out in the open while they leave camp to go sightseeing.

My sister-in-law bought a solar generator thinking that she’d become an overnight survivalist. She had no idea how to set it up, so it sat for over a month until my wife and I visited her. She had bought a base unit and a supplemental battery.

The problem was, the larger battery wasn’t compatible with the smaller base unit. It couldn’t be connected, so the energy couldn’t be used and it couldn’t be charged. Rookie mistake. Having sat for a month, it could not be returned. The base unit (760wH’s if I recall) can be used and charged using either a wall outlet or the 160w solar panel.

We set up the solar panel, in August, in Tennessee, I showed her the output and explained that it would take about 5 hours, in full sun, to charge the battery. She was trying to go cheap, because she’d heard how expensive it was to get a whole house backup generator. Now she’s out $2500 on something that is marginally useful and would have to spend another $500-800 to make the other part marginally useful and she’d still only have a 160w panel to charge.

So we went to Costco and bought a tri-fuel generator and a couple of propane tanks for about $750. Now she has to roll a generator out of the garage and run extension cords to various appliances, and be home when the power goes out to make that happen. She can easily afford a whole house generator, which would keep her in comfort with no effort, but she was led to believe that a little box could power her whole house.
 
For those looking for reliability and simplicity (and can afford it), the whole house generator is the way to go. My parents went that route for their home in western New York -- power outages became a non-issue for them after that. This also gave my siblings and me peace-of-mind over the years that my mom lived there alone after my dad passed away.

Similar to you, I'm not a fan of solar generators, especially given their high cost and how they are marketed. I know many people who made the same purchase decision as your sister-in-law, and with the same results.

Solar can be great as long as you understand its strengths and limitations.

Along with my house and TT, I also built a "milk crate" solar system (12v 100Ah LiFePo4 battery, 800w inverter, 400w of solar panels, 20a solar charge controller, and 120v 10a alternative AC charger) for my garden shed. That was much easier to build/install compared to running grid power to the shed. It powers the lights and all chargers needed to keep my garden tools ready for use (e.g., mower, leaf blower, trimmer, etc.), and I can easily disconnect and move it for use as a portable power source anywhere on my property (or loan it to friends in a power emergency). All that "solar generator" flexibility cost about $1000 (excluding panels -- I had used ones lying around from my initial TT system).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top